Jump to content

M-61 Vulcan and Gau-8 Avenger dispersion values

Flagrum

By Flagrum
in Bugs and Problems

 Share

Recommended Posts

mvsgas

mvsgas

Posted
Posted

Do you have a two detente trigger on your stick or how are you using the PAC? I am not an expert but those number in the post taken from the General Dynamics site are from company selling a product, also using test number from a control environment. How accurate and truthful are those number? I think it depends on several factors, to include pilot experience, proficiency as well as ability to use the gun properly, etc. Just my opinion of course.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Flagrum

Flagrum

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Do you have a two detente trigger on your stick or how are you using the PAC? I am not an expert but those number in the post taken from the General Dynamics site are from company selling a product, also using test number from a control environment. How accurate and truthful are those number? I think it depends on several factors, to include pilot experience, proficiency as well as ability to use the gun properly, etc. Just my opinion of course.

This is not a PIE (pilot induced error ... just made that up :o). Re-read Noodle's findings. The dispersion, expressed as an angle (mils here) is independend from the delivery method - an angle is an angle, no matter at what distance.

 

What you have in mind is the bullet density on target. That depends on several factors, which are mainly a) distance to target and b) et-voila ... dispersion. (the further away, the more area is covered by the same angle; 5 mils = 5 meters at 1000 meters, but 5 mils = 10 meters at 2000 meters). But here, we only talk about the dispersion.

 

That the stated 5mils are exceeded is visible in his video (and easily reproducible): the bullet impacts are all over the place, even wider than the whole gun cross (which is way more than 5 mils ... "measured" with the depressible pipper, I would say 20 mils). On the other hand, the projected impact area of the IFFCC, the BATA, is very narrow in comparisation and thus seemingly supporting the 5 mils idea (aka the ED devs seemed to be aware of that 5mil factor). Only the actual bullet trajectory seems off.


Edited by Flagrum
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mvsgas

mvsgas

Posted
Posted

Where can we find actual number for the aircraft? R/L and or DCS? How do we know it suppose to be 5 Mil?

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Flagrum

Flagrum

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
Where can we find actual number for the aircraft? R/L and or DCS? How do we know it suppose to be 5 Mil?

DCS: see the video in Noodles posting (first link in my original posting). The BATA shows where our A-10C thinks the bullets should impact and compare that to where they actually do hit. The gun cross covers 20 mils, the BATA is shown only for a fraction of the width of the gun cross and the true impacts are dispersed wider than those 20 mils.

 

RL / why 5 mils: expertise of Noodle and manufacturer data sheet (via my second link)

 

edit:

additional sources:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/gau-8.htm

http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_service/weapons/cannons/gau8/gau8_en.htm


Edited by Flagrum
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mvsgas

mvsgas

Posted
Posted

So no aircraft actual data? ok

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a522446.pdf

So far I found this report, have not read it fully yet. I will keep looking

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
karambiatos

karambiatos

Posted
Posted

here it says http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/gau-8.htm

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1948215&postcount=3445

 

 

first link says 80% at 4000 feet, which is 0.658 nm, second is even less, it is 0.559 nm and forgive me if im wrong, but the distance marker on the hud is in nm

A 1000 flights, a 1000 crashes, perfect record.

 

=&arrFilter_pf[gameversion]=&arrFilter_pf[filelang]=&arrFilter_pf[aircraft]=&arrFilter_DATE_CREATE_1_DAYS_TO_BACK=&sort_by_order=TIMESTAMP_X_DESC"] Check out my random mods and things

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mvsgas

mvsgas

Posted
Posted (edited)
If you want the real source, go to NIPR and join the A-10 Flight Manual Community of Practice. The numbers are in 3-3.A-10C "Combat Aircraft Fundamentals". It's FOUO.

 

Or, you can follow the link to the GD marketing brochure.

 

That is the full book number, 3-3? Or is it suppose to be 1A-10C-3-3?

Edit never mind found the actual name

AFTTP 3-3.A-10


Edited by mvsgas

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Snoopy

Snoopy

Posted
Posted (edited)

Do we really need another thread on the same topic already being discussed?

 

That is the full book number, 3-3? Or is it suppose to be 1A-10C-3-3?

 

The 3-3.A-10 is real world weapons school documentation which states the same thing as the publicly available General Dynamic fact sheet Noodle posted.


Edited by Snoopy

v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter

image.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mvsgas

mvsgas

Posted
Posted

Thanks Paul

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...
macieksoft

macieksoft

Posted
Posted

Maybe there is a possibility to fix it by editing some lua files, but i am not sure about it. But it will possibly be problem in MP (integrity check).

DCS A-10C is only for enthertaiment??? Not for me.

JDAM manual is classyfied??? Not for me.

Lies sounds like a truth??? Not for me.

Knowlege is for kids??? Nope, its for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Flagrum

Flagrum

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Maybe there is a possibility to fix it by editing some lua files, but i am not sure about it. But it will possibly be problem in MP (integrity check).

Sure.

 

shell_table.lua

shell("GAU8_30_HE", _("GAU8_30_HE"), {

model_name = "tracer_bullet_A-10",

v0 = 950.0,

Dv0 = 0.0060,

Da0 = 0.0017,

Da1 = 0.0,

mass = 0.360,

round_mass = 0.700,

cartridge_mass = 0.360,

explosive = 0.360, -- 0.083 kg in real

life_time = 31,

caliber = 30.0,

s = 0.0,

j = 0.0,

l = 0.0,

charTime = 0,

cx = {0.5,0.80,0.90,0.080,2.15},

k1 = 5.7e-09,

tracer_off = -100,

scale_tracer = 0,

scale_smoke = 2.0,

name = "30mm HE",

 

cartridge = 0,

});

(and similar for GAU8_30_AP and GAU8_30_TP)

 

Change the marked value to something smaller.

 

The M240 - the Apache gun, which is called an "area weapon" - is set to Dv0 = 0.0070 while the Ka-50 "sniper"-gun has Da0 = 0.0005 for HE and Da0 = 0.0004 for AP.

 

My guess(!) would be, that the GAU-8 should be set to 0.0010ish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nerdwing

Nerdwing

Posted
Posted
Sure.

 

shell_table.lua

 

(and similar for GAU8_30_AP and GAU8_30_TP)

 

Change the marked value to something smaller.

 

The M240 - the Apache gun, which is called an "area weapon" - is set to Dv0 = 0.0070 while the Ka-50 "sniper"-gun has Da0 = 0.0005 for HE and Da0 = 0.0004 for AP.

 

My guess(!) would be, that the GAU-8 should be set to 0.0010ish.

 

 

Thank you for sharing your findings! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 9 months later...
DirtyFret

DirtyFret

Posted
Posted
Sure.

 

shell_table.lua

 

(and similar for GAU8_30_AP and GAU8_30_TP)

 

Change the marked value to something smaller.

 

The M240 - the Apache gun, which is called an "area weapon" - is set to Dv0 = 0.0070 while the Ka-50 "sniper"-gun has Da0 = 0.0005 for HE and Da0 = 0.0004 for AP.

 

My guess(!) would be, that the GAU-8 should be set to 0.0010ish.

 

I packed your elegant solution :thumbup: into a easy-peasy JSGME compatible format. Saves the trouble of doing the edit everytime an update occurs.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2371528#post2371528

[sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic109142_3.gif[/sIGPIC]

PewPew, "Stick 'em with the pointy end" "Vasilissa the Beautiful" HD Cockpit

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
AtaliaA1

AtaliaA1

Posted
Posted

What is the difference between the 2 segments of this video? More damage caused with the gun in the first pass?

This was a Boutique Builder iBuypower rig. Until I got the tinker bug again i7 920 @3.6Mhz 12Gig Corsair XMS3 ram 1600 Nvidia 760 SLi w/4Gig DDR5 Ram Intel 310 SSD HDD 160 Gb + Western Digital 4Terabyte HDD Creative SB X-Fi HD Audio Logitech X-530 5.1 Surround Speaker System Dual Acer 32"Monitors. PSU 1200 w Thermaltake Win10 64Bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
howie87

howie87

Posted
Posted (edited)
What is the difference between the 2 segments of this video? More damage caused with the gun in the first pass?

 

Less dispersion in the second pass (with the mod enabled).

 

The GAU-8 should have an accuracy of 5mil as explained by Noodle here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1948435&postcount=10

 

The dispersion in DCS as modelled currently is too great but adjusting Da0 = 0.0017 to Da0 = 0.0008 makes this pretty much correct.


Edited by howie87
Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...