The F5 View...

[169th_DedCat]

I like flying with no external views at all, but sometimes it is nice to have them on for the sake of eye-candy and screenshots. The major problem I have with this is that the F5 view makes things far too easy in that situation. I'd like to see an option to disable the F5 view independently of the external views.

[Shepski]

I second that motion!! :)

[Ice]

Me Three!

[Drakkhen]

Or just consider having the option set for the game while all views are available in video edition mode... :wink:

[Nate--IRL--]

Yes i agree F5 (and ctrl F5) should be allowed to be disabled seperately from the other external views. it is like F6 and F7 in il2, which i use online too much, but hate admit that i do.

 

 

Nate

[DAZnBLAST]

F5 view

 

I agree. I take it the server over-rides the individuals F5 preference? e.g If mine is enabled and the servers is disabled, F5 should not work for me?

 

If it did work, some people have a unfair advantage.

[Chizh]

I have written down your wish. In 1.1 I do not promise, but in the future we shall consider.

[Beowulf]

Add padlock to that list of yours Chizh..

 

Track-IR gives people an unfair advantage over he or she who doesn't own such a device. I simply dont like that.

 

I have one too and I can see for myself how this thing acts as a

cheat on a no padlock server. I want to give my oponents, those who don't have a TIR, the oppertunity to follow and track me in a fair fight.. That 'I can see you but you can't see me' stuff is getting pretty old after kill number 10.. Some folks seem to get a woody from it though.

 

Level the playing field Chizh..

[169th_DedCat]

Thanks Chizh!

[ThirdELTPoznan]

I agree with you guys. I dont use external views now and I must admit that I never used F5. If I would be separated I will come back to external views.

[169th_DedCat]

I don't follow your post Beowulf. What exactly are you getting at? LOMAC very obviously does have a padlock option which can be set independently of other server settings.

 

I disagree with TrackIR being a cheat on a no-padlock server. I believe having a locked cross centering your view on your opponent for you to be a cheat. It is very easy to fly around blindly pushing the padlock key repeatedly until it finds and locks a bandit for you. Someone using padlock barely has to put any effort into visually searching for contacts. It is a simple task to pick out a bandit in heavy camo terrain with padlock that you might easily miss without it, even using a TrackIR. You can even find someone through mountains with padlock!

 

I don't have a TrackIR, I use a hat switch to pan my view around as I would my head in a no-padlock server, and I find the playing field very level thankyouverymuch. 8)

[Ice]

DedCat speaks the truth! He doesnt use track Ir and is still one of the most dangerous on a full real server.

[GGTharos]

I use the hatswitch to look around a lot, but padlock's great once you get into a dogfight. You don't want padlock, don't use it.

 

Using the hat against people with TIR is /horrible/, albeit certianly not undoable - I've done it before, but if you prefer to give yourself far extra work than you need, that's your problem, don't make it ours.

[169th_DedCat]

You don't want padlock, don't use it ... if you prefer to give yourself far extra work than you need, that's your problem, don't make it ours.

Who is making it yours? Padlock is an easily enabled or disabled option. If you don't like flying in servers with full Ace difficulty settings, then don't fly in them.

[Guest ruggbutt]

Track-IR gives people an unfair advantage over he or she who doesn't own such a device. I simply dont like that.

 

As does the joystick over those using keyboard.

[GGTharos]

Track-IR gives people an unfair advantage over he or she who doesn't own such a device. I simply dont like that.

 

As does the joystick over those using keyboard.

 

And you know a lot of people who fly using the keyboard, right?

[Guest ruggbutt]

And you know a lot of people who fly using the keyboard, right?

 

Head over to the UBI forums and check it out. I've seen plenty of posts about people using the k/b. Usually they get talked into buying a joystick.

 

Let me pose this question: Does the guy that has the 4ghz processor and the newest vid card have an advantage over the guy w/the 1.3 Athlon? Yep, he sure does. To use the "advantage" excuse isn't a good one in my book.

 

People mapping the padlock key to their joystick and waiting for that cross to appear doesn't give them an advantage? I'll leave it to you to answer that question.

[GGTharos]

Sure it does. However at 5nm (that's the padlock distance, AFAIK) your chances of padlocking things you hadn't seen already aren't all -that- great. While it's still exploitable, it's typically not so terrible at all.

 

Using a hat switch to try and keep track of someone in a dogfight OTOH is pretty nasty against people who are using trackIR. I've already tried it, won some, lost some, I really dislike it, and I don't have the 130USD to blow on a TrackIR.

 

And there is a *huge* diff, AFAIK, between the advantage you get in a dogfight vs. someone who's got a less powerful machine than vs. someone who's got to run on low settings. Am I wrong?

 

Besides, if you get around someone and they haven't seen you on radar as you were coming in (so they don't expect you) padlocking doesn't help them that much ... they concentrate on other things. Like I said, I look around a *lot* because you can spot things 3 time the distance out beyond padlock range if you're careful. This doesn't bother me. The difficulty with tracking an aircraft in a dogfight and finding them again once you llose'em does, people with TIR AFAIK have it much easier.

[Dmut]

Guys, the topics like this are usually mutate into a nasty flaming wars.

I personnaly thinks that situation with padlock is most balanced in 1.02, and we don't need to changes it.

And about advantages - I agree with ruggbutt. Those who using 4GHz + GF6 class video - have some minor advantages, but this doesn't meant ED should balanced it, giving benefits for those who has 1GHz+GF1 class video.

Think about those who have good rudders - may be other who haven't must get a ideal "autopilot" rudders? ;) I dont think so.

[Beowulf]

thankyouverymuch. 8)

 

Ask your CO to put G-fx on for a change, then come back thankyouverymuch...

 

Anyway,

GGtharos said it already, no need for me to repeat it again..

 

 

Schluss...

[Kula66]

I personally like the F5 view, but sure have an option for it to be disabled on a host, just so long as I can keep it on my server :) My ACM is so bad I need all the help I can get!!

 

Hey, perhaps a 'Jedi Training' mode option should be added ... visor down, fight with no view at all ... feel the force! At least it would be fair for all!

 

James

 

PS> My only 2 grips are that the status bar show my opponents info not mine AND that IR lock tones don't change when you fly out side!! Is this fixed by the way?

[SwingKid]

Think about those who have good rudders - may be other who haven't must get a ideal "autopilot" rudders? ;) I dont think so.

 

I think it's a good example, why I disagree.

 

The keyboard rudder can be improved, without to make it an "ideal autopilot rudder".

 

For example, try this experiment:

The aircraft is standing still on the ground.

Hold the right rudder key (X) until the nosewheel is fully turned to the right.

Release the right rudder key, and observe how much time it takes, for the nosewheel to turn left, back to the center position.

 

Now hold the right rudder key (X) again, until the nosewheel is fully turned to the right.

Release the right rudder key, (X), and at the same moment, press and hold the left rudder key (Z). Observe how much time it takes, for the nosewheel to turn left, back to the center position.

 

When you don't press the left rudder key, the nosewheel turns left faster, than when you do press the left rudder key!

 

If I say that there is a better way to model this feature, what answer will I receive?

 

"Buy rudder pedals."

 

Is it an "ideal auto-pilot", to expect simply that to press the left rudder key should produce a left turn? No. Simply, it's a bad design. And there is no reason for it, except that nobody cares to examine it or make it better, because the easiest solution is "it's your own problem. Buy rudder pedals, practice your skills."

 

In the same way, such a critical function as missile padlock - assigned to Alt-Keypad Del? That is required to take two hands off of the joystick and throttle? Again, the answer is - "buy a programmable joystick. Then you can put this function, where you want." Well, it's also true if we put it in a better place on the keyboard.

 

In a similar way, the existence of TrackIR can replace the padlock. But why can we not have both - AND TrackIR compatibility, AND a good padlock? AND pedal control, AND a good keyboard control? AND joystick programmability, AND a well-planned keyboard arrangement?

 

So, I welcome the discussion of ideas. The idea to make the F5 view optional, controlled by the server, separate from the padlock is a good one, and the discussion of padlock itself is something different, and maybe needs its own separate discussion. Maybe I will start a different topic.

 

But the object of the discussion should be clear. It should not be - "how can we give the Padlock the same limitations as the TrackIR". But rather, "how can we make both Padlock and TrackIR have the same limitations as the real pilot's vision?"

 

Similarly, the question should not be - how to make the keyboard have the same abilities as rudder pedals, but rather, how to make the keyboard and the rudder pedals control the aircraft.

 

Just my opinion. Sorry if it's too critical - I don't think it must become a flame-war, but I think the debate is a good idea. The existence of such technologies - the rudder pedals, programmable joystick, TrackIR - they should make the sim with these tools even better. They should not make the sim without them, worse.

 

Regards,

 

-SK

 

Lock On v1.1 "Flaming Cliffs" beta tester

[Shepski]

Hi guys,

 

Good job so far on keeping this civil... please don't take this thread downhill!

 

My 2 cents...

 

What having a no-padlock server does is to virtually eliminate the effectiveness of the Russian Schelm system. Trying to get the targeting reticle on a bandit while in a visual engagement is VERY difficult when panning the view with a hat.

 

Players with TrackIR flying the Flanker or Mig have a huge advantage in a visual fight. I have TrackIR and have been in no-padlock servers with it on and with it off... the difference is night and day with regards to using the Schlem system.

 

BTW...the padlock will only lock onto targets within about 20 degrees of the center of the view so it is not as magical as some people think.

 

But, ultimately... if you don't think it's fair then don't join servers that have features enabled or disabled that you don't like.

 

Cheers

[Kula66]

But, ultimately... if you don't think it's fair then don't join servers that have features enabled or disabled that you don't like.

True, but there are very few fulltime servers that I've found .... I put a server up occasionsally, but it ether crashes after a few hours or I get mad when some moron takes AMRAAMs/ERs on a gunzo server and shut it down - I wish there was some way to lock loadouts!

 

James

[Cromewell]

if you can actually see them, padlock is all well and good but when you padlock someone you shouldn't be able to see, I agree it's a cheat. I don't own a trackIR but at least the people who do have to be able to see you to make use of it.

 

would it be possible to remove padlocks ability to lock onto targets you cant see? ie. they are behind a mountain, or maybe even a cloud