Air-to-Air Refueling in VR Sight Picture (KC-130)

[Bearfoot]

I manage to get the horizontal lineup fine, at least until the final moments by keeping the refueling pod just right of the HUD center.

 

It's the vertical that I keep missing. I am typically too high with the pod jammed against the top of my windshield and going lower causes me to loose sight of the pod entirely.

 

I've found a bunch of videos online, but I think there are differences in the view position (I suspect all the famous ones are using TrackIR isntead of VR?). In my case, the pod (and in fact, the entire wing) just disappears above the front windshield bars as I get close, so I have nothing to reference in the final crucial seconds. I can dip my head to regain sight of the pod, but then it is not so useful as a reference as the amount I dip my head and the angle I look changes everything. Ditto for adjusting baseline VR height.

 

What do you folks who use VR use as reference for the height/vertical station keeping on the final approach to the basket?

Edited September 22, 2019 by Bearfoot

[WindyTX]

I know exactly what you mean about the canopy bow. I duck my head so I can see the tanker and the basket in my peripheral vision. Once in then relax back up and formate on the tanker.

 

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[Bearfoot]

I know exactly what you mean about the canopy bow. I duck my head so I can see the tanker and the basket in my peripheral vision. Once in then relax back up and formate on the tanker.

 

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Glad I'm not alone!

 

I've been told, and read, and heard x10000, to "not look at the basket". But without an external reference I have no idea how to get it in.

 

When you duck your head so you can see the tanker, what do you watch or line up with? And how do you ensure consistency in the angle of your duck when learning the line up cues? E.g., if today you duck too low you might end up coming in too high.

[WindyTX]

Well try and get someone to sit in the back, duck your head and stay in that position, listen to the guy in the back while formating on the tanker for lineup. That's how it works in real life. If you can't do that use your peripheral vision to get in position about 6 ft behind the basket and then move forward concentrating on the tanker.

 

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[Bearfoot]

Well try and get someone to sit in the back, duck your head and stay in that position, listen to the guy in the back while formating on the tanker for lineup. That's how it works in real life. If you can't do that use your peripheral vision to get in position about 6 ft behind the basket and then move forward concentrating on the tanker.

 

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Thanks.

 

With regards to the first suggestion: I'm flying single-player only while learning the basics here. (Though I do guns only BFM online for stress relief or when I am tired of failing!).

 

I am intrigued by your second suggestion. So the idea is to get the same altitude as the basket and then somehow or other keep her level as I move forward? I can see that working. I've seen a video where someone comes in with the basket in line with the warning light, so if correct that would be one reference to use for this approach. But I would have to look at the basket to do that.

[Bearfoot]

Some examples of different sight pictures

 

 

This is one of the canonical refueling videos, and the pod remains visible right there at the top of the canopy all the way into plugin. Mine disappears before that, and if I try to keep it in sight at the top of the canopy like that I come in too high even though my horizontal position is good.

 

 

Here the pod is halfway down the canopy frame. In my case, even with it at top of the frame I am too high. So there is clearly a different baseline perspective.

 

 

This is more what I see. No pod during the last critical seconds of final approach! Just the basket. Once plugged in we can move up to regain sight of the pod and keep station, but what do we reference for height in the initial approach to plugin?

[WindyTX]

I can't see the YouTube's on my phone but you can't look at the basket as you will overcontrol the aircraft. You have to concentrate on the tanker references that had you level with the basket and maintain them as you go forward. The sim is a little generous on getting in the basket but that technique works.

 

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[SacredRaziel]

I know your pain.

Against better advice I so tend to keep an eye on the basket but force myself to not over correct. A long straight approach of maybe 100ft helps plenty for me. Though I tend to use the 135 so I have the tanker in peripheral vision on the side

 

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[draconus]

@Bearfoot, are your wings in auto or bomb? It changes your AoA so does view angle outside canopy.

Also my take is to fly formation before contact, steer straight and level to the basket (looking at it) then fly formation again when taking fuel. It'd frustrate the hell of me the other way.

[Bearfoot]

My wings are in auto. I can see the higher AoA helping with the picture. Will give it a try.

[Revs]

manual wings to 25-30 for easy power pickup, trim trim trim prior to approaching the basket and I would just dart to the basket. If I miss, back out and dart again, dart meaning like coming in with some speed but on the phase(decelerating) of slowing down just so catch or not I'll be slowing down just past the basket. I do that so my approach does not need adjusting power as it throws the jet up or down depending on the aoa and amount of power applied.

 

also at this point I would be looking at the basket. then the tanker when connected

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

I manage to get the horizontal lineup fine, at least until the final moments by keeping the refueling pod just right of the HUD center.

 

It's the vertical that I keep missing. I am typically too high with the pod jammed against the top of my windshield and going lower causes me to loose sight of the pod entirely.

 

I've found a bunch of videos online, but I think there are differences in the view position (I suspect all the famous ones are using TrackIR isntead of VR?). In my case, the pod (and in fact, the entire wing) just disappears above the front windshield bars as I get close, so I have nothing to reference in the final crucial seconds. I can dip my head to regain sight of the pod, but then it is not so useful as a reference as the amount I dip my head and the angle I look changes everything. Ditto for adjusting baseline VR height.

 

What do you folks who use VR use as reference for the height/vertical station keeping on the final approach to the basket?

Sorry for late response, checked other answers but didn´t find something similar. That´s what I do:

When approaching the tanker(miles out), I set my wings to BOMB mode and trim a bit for comfort.

Then join the tanker left wing. Match the speed and trim accordingly.

Use "RCtril + Rshift + NumPad2" to move your seat down; far easier than just ducking your head for the whole refuelling process.

Same keys but with "NumPad8" moves up.

Also notice same keys with "NumPad *" and "NumPad /" moves you closer or further from the front panel.

 

Practice and fine movements; all the best for your refuelling efforts and happy flying, sir!

[Bearfoot]

Thanks all for the generous advice and tips!

 

Bomb mode (and trimming once established in stable formation next to tanker in bomb mode) helped keep the sight picture for longer. Still lose the sight picture in close and honestly there still seems no feedback to correct adjust vertical position without looking at the basket. But somehow, maybe using the force, I now manage to plug in 3-4 times ... out of 30-40 tries true, but that's more than zero!

 

Now the challenge is STAYING plugged in!

[viper2097]

Did you read the sticky thread about aerial refueling? There are already a lot of very good tips.

Just keep on going, its only a question of practice.

[Bearfoot]

Did you read the sticky thread about aerial refueling? There are already a lot of very good tips.

Just keep on going, its only a question of practice.

 

Yes, I did. All of it.

 

Did you?

 

Nothing in that thread provided the answer to the question of my post.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Bearfoot

[VF31_Subsonic]

Pop a bit of speed brake with bomb mode. Will give you a bit better speed control and a more narrow band of throttle setting for control. Trim it all up on the approach, get a feel for stable flight at same speed as tanker....remember that with your throttle hand and then in you go.

 

 

I also find a small amount of negative trim where I need some back pressure, keeps me in good control.

 

 

Then crane neck and set pod high and right in the center windscreen, or look right and fly off tanker using peripheral vision to mind the hose angle. Depending on which aircraft I am tanking on.

 

 

When I know we are getting to end of orbit and turning soon I will crowd the tanker wing a bit to allow speed adjust drift until stable in the turn, then reset my distance on the pod.