R-77 Usefulness?

[FlankerMan]

Seeing as the only two currently flyable aircraft in DCS that can use the Adder (the MiG-29S and the J-11A) can only launch it in STT mode, meaning the target gets launch warnings (no soft lock TWS option like in F-15C), and there isn't a countdown timer to missile pitbull (so they just keep target locked until confirmed impact or miss), is it much better than the R-27ER?

[Kappi]

You can launch it in TWS mode. The MiG-29S can even launch 2 R-77 in TWS against 2 targets.

[FlankerMan]

Hmm...Will try this. Do the enemies react prematurely? Does the AI do this?

[AeriaGloria]

If you know you will waste a missile to make them defensive take lighter less draggy R-77. I can’t tell you how many times someone ran away out of missile range, I fire an R-77 at them, the missile warning makes them think they are in R-27ER envelope and they turn to notch, which closes the range enough to get them with R-77/73

[FlankerMan]

Okay, so say you're in an F-15C (or any aircraft, it really doesn't matter), and you're enemy (be he a J-11A or MiG-29S) fires an R-27ER at its Rmax (maximum) range. Then, another time, he fires an R-77 at ITS Rmax range. Ignoring the range difference, which is more capable (harder to dodge)? Now, say you launch each at the R-77's range (say about 35 kilometers), which is harder to avoid now?

[GGTharos]

At max range both are quite easy. At 35km the ER will probably be superior but not by much.

[FlankerMan]

Okay, thanks. To put it another way, it's already well known that the R-27ER has a decent range advantage over the R-77. Given that the MiG-29S and J-11A treat both missiles like SARH, even though the -77 is ARH, is there any reason to carry Adders instead of Alamo-Cs?

[AeriaGloria]

R-77 has advanced proportional navigation, R-27 does not. To me that means it does better against a maneuvering target(ignoring range difference.) it also means you get more range per pound of weight carried and unit of drag.

[Boogieman]

R77 is the better weapon in the pre-merge. Fire it in someone's face inside of ~7km and they will have a hard time dodging it. You will be able to turn away immediately unlike the R27ER. It should turn better than the ER at this range as well.

[Fri13]

TWS ain't meant to be used against a fighter or any target that can maneuver.

It is meant to situations where targets are high altitude strategic bombers, spy planes or anything can't react out turn fast, like a cruise missiles. And that in situations where you need to maximize big target numbers in short interception window, like a bombers or cruise missiles in your reach, before they fly past the missile range.

 

The DCS doesn't simulate TWS correctly nor missiles even, making them far too effective, capable and accurate.

 

Even a modern fighter can guide 2 or 4 of R-27ER simultaneously on each individual target, but you will radically lower changes to hit targets if those maneuver.

 

And our FC3 aircrafts are not having features they should have, rendering their capable tactics and methods unusable or non-existing.

 

If you want to find out how DCS works, get a free (1 month) TacView and analyze your miss performance and behavior with it. You will learn quickly many things how to use them better in DCS.

[Boogieman]

Even a modern fighter can guide 2 or 4 of R-27ER simultaneously on each individual target, but you will radically lower changes to hit targets if those maneuver.

 

I'm pretty sure you'd need a PESA or AESA radar with SWT mode to do this (eg. Irbis-E). DCS only models MSA radars though, so it's not possible.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Boogieman

[AeriaGloria]

Kind of a technicality but The MiG-31 AI has a PESA, has a very small notch

[Boogieman]

^True. All the playable aircraft are MSA though :smilewink:

Edited October 28, 2019 by Boogieman

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

Not really, the R-27ER is your main BVR weapon R-77s and R-27ETs are peripheral and situational weapons at best, and its a shame to see people fly out with 6 of the things.

 

Focus on getting the maximum performance out of the Alamo Charlies kinematics and you will go far, very far.

[AeriaGloria]

I never take R-27ER. Prefer to stay light and clean with R-77. Yes it denies me super long range, but with more fuel from hauling less drag and weight and going active I feel more comfortable getting a little closer. To me getting a BVR kill past 25km is pretty situational. Different strokes for different folks

[Boogieman]

I never take R-27ER. Prefer to stay light and clean with R-77. Yes it denies me super long range, but with more fuel from hauling less drag and weight and going active I feel more comfortable getting a little closer. To me getting a BVR kill past 25km is pretty situational. Different strokes for different folks

 

I was under the impression that the R77 is actually draggier than the R27ER due in large part to its lattice fins...

Edited October 29, 2019 by Boogieman

[Fri13]

I'm pretty sure you'd need a PESA or AESA radar with SWT mode to do this (eg. Irbis-E). DCS only models MSA radars though, so it's not possible.

 

We don't have any modern fighter in DCS for REDFOR.

That is the problem.

 

F/A-18C and F-16C are way newer than that REDFOR has. Our REDFOR is limited to FC3 or 1-2nd generation fighters.

[BlackPixxel]

The ER is so easy to defeat with chaff that it is often not possible to use the kinetic advantage.

 

The R-77 is much harder to notch/chaff.

[Schmidtfire]

The R-27 can not intercept supersonic targets in DCS. It will be updated but as of now it does not perform well. R-77 has some advantages. One is that it is pretty much fire and forget, the other is that it is possible to engage two targets at the same time with TWS2 mode. A mix of R-27, R-77 and R-73 offers alternatives for all ranges.

[Boogieman]

We don't have any modern fighter in DCS for REDFOR.

That is the problem.

 

F/A-18C and F-16C are way newer than that REDFOR has. Our REDFOR is limited to FC3 or 1-2nd generation fighters.

 

True. JF17 will hopefully change that, plus J11 allows use of R77 which kind of makes it similar to an early Su27SM... kind of.

[Airhunter]

Get close, use it, notch or drag. It is a decent WVR missile.

[JunMcKill]

Seeing as the only two currently flyable aircraft in DCS that can use the Adder (the MiG-29S and the J-11A) can only launch it in STT mode, meaning the target gets launch warnings (no soft lock TWS option like in F-15C), and there isn't a countdown timer to missile pitbull (so they just keep target locked until confirmed impact or miss), is it much better than the R-27ER?

 

We have been in the same discussion for years about the Russian's ARH missile and the way they are locked and launched, AFAIK ED have no real information about how it works with the MIG-29S and the real radar modes of modern Russian aircrafts. Or maybe, they have the info, but is not published online and can't simulate it.

[Keks]

F/A-18C and F-16C are way newer than that REDFOR has. Our REDFOR is limited to FC3 or 1-2nd generation fighters.

 

Thats a server problem and not a DCS problem. There is nothing wrong with putting current gen4s like the hornet, eagle or viper on both sides.....

[JunMcKill]

Thats a server problem and not a DCS problem. There is nothing wrong with putting current gen4s like the hornet, eagle or viper on both sides.....

 

The problem is that people DONT want to play the same aircraft both sides!!, they want to use Russians aircrafts in the RED side, that's all!. I love american aircraft, but I want to see diversity and that is DCS's problem, not the server.

[Schmidtfire]

I agree. People only looking to fly the ”best” or most ”capable” aircraft online is not getting what DCS is about at all.