My son bought the Hornet. I have few questions.

[hollywoodvillain]

Why do people say stupid stuff, thinking they are being creative and funny?

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

Because ive owned 2 of them and i simply cant fathom why ANYONE would recommend it. I would rather fly with a keyboard before i would ever go back to a warthog stick. And i think my analogy was pretty spot on, people are obsessed with shiny things (oh wow its metal!) without considering whats on the inside. Almost every single person claiming the hog is gods stick are coming from a 3d pro or tflight or x52/55/56 and are clueless as to other gems out there, no offence, im just trying to save the guy from buying a way over priced piece of junk!

[statrekmike]

Because ive owned 2 of them and i simply cant fathom why ANYONE would recommend it. I would rather fly with a keyboard before i would ever go back to a warthog stick. And i think my analogy was pretty spot on, people are obsessed with shiny things (oh wow its metal!) without considering whats on the inside. Almost every single person claiming the hog is gods stick are coming from a 3d pro or tflight or x52/55/56 and are clueless as to other gems out there, no offence, im just trying to save the guy from buying a way over priced piece of junk!

 

If you are EXCLUSIVELY looking at it from the perspective of someone who can comfortably (but perhaps not easily) afford a Virpil or even VKB setup, sure, the Warthog might come off as somewhat "overpriced". Obviously Virpil and other high-end enthusiast level HOTAS setups are going to have better internal mechanics and thus better performance.

 

That being said, you are missing a important part of the equation. If you are looking to get the best HOTAS you can that is a.) readily available and b.) priced below $500, the Warthog really is the best choice. At the moment, a Virpil setup is going (complete HOTAS) to run one around $800 USD (not including shipping) and while it is obviously a superior setup, it is also more than double the price of a Warthog is and a lot more inconvenient to order/wait for.

 

Looking at the complete range of HOTAS setups on the market, the Warthog sits firmly in the middle. It is obviously not the best but to say that it is worse than entry level setups is hyperbolic at best and misleading at worst.

[hollywoodvillain]

Ok i understand those points, but im not just talking about high end hotas, and i disagree with the wh sitting firmly in the middle. T16000, vkb gladiator, ch fighterstick are superior examples, not without their flaws but cheaper and you can spend the extra money on a quality throttle. While you can call this simply my opinion, and certainly you would be correct, fact is ive flown with many others who get WH and are all excited at first, only to be let down when they have to add deadzone and curve it out to the point of absurdity for precision flying. Time and time again i warn people against wh and they always ignore me and get it anyway, then after honeymoon they cant stand it. Im disgusted by wh because people believe it to be a mid/high end stick, which it is absolutely not.

[Habu_69]

fact is ive flown with many others who get WH and are all excited at first, only to be let down when they have to add deadzone and curve it out to the point of absurdity for precision flying. Time and time again i warn people against wh and they always ignore me and get it anyway, then after honeymoon they cant stand it. Im disgusted by wh because people believe it to be a mid/high end stick, which it is absolutely not.

I have never had a WH stick (still use my OLD trusty force sensing Cougar), but I use the WH throttle and consider it one of the best available. Cougar sets are hard to find and quite old now, but occasionally one pops up on EBay. Usually over-priced unfortunately.

[delevero]

My tiny advice.

 

If you fly sims often and have been doing so for many years and find flying interesting then i would recommend to get a quality joystick.

 

Do not expect any plastic joystick to be precise for more than 6-12 month

HOWEVER yes you can fly the planes and pretty well though.. just be aware the sticks get a bit off. But example the x56 is a good joystick on a medium budget.

 

While example the warthog is more reliable

The most expensive joysticks such as virpil and VKB and other dexpensive joystick uses much better quality sensors that will be precise for many years and also the internal parts are wheel bearings and such.. with other words its mechanical vs example the x56 that have allot of plastic stuff inside.

 

In the long term it might be cheaper to buy a quality joystick, than buying a new "x56" every 2 years if you fly allot and you get unprecise.

The good think about the more cheap joysticks are you can change them more often and get something that look better or work a little different.

The x56 twist is okay then you avoid buying a rudder.

In jets you dont use rudder that much ( depends ) but if you fly helis you might want to consider rudder pedals. ( and the word "TRIM" and let the heli do the hard stuff so you can sit and relax while you fly els you get tired in legs and wrist ect.. trim ).

 

I had the

logitech g940 ( actual its was pretty good )

the x52, x56 and x56pro ( i think it was named )

They all became unprecise after about 6 month.

Now i have the virpil and its still 100% precise 1 year later. BUT expensive

[statrekmike]

Ok i understand those points, but im not just talking about high end hotas, and i disagree with the wh sitting firmly in the middle. T16000, vkb gladiator, ch fighterstick are superior examples, not without their flaws but cheaper and you can spend the extra money on a quality throttle. While you can call this simply my opinion, and certainly you would be correct, fact is ive flown with many others who get WH and are all excited at first, only to be let down when they have to add deadzone and curve it out to the point of absurdity for precision flying. Time and time again i warn people against wh and they always ignore me and get it anyway, then after honeymoon they cant stand it. Im disgusted by wh because people believe it to be a mid/high end stick, which it is absolutely not.

 

I have used a pretty wide variety of HOTAS setups and joysticks and even after about a year with my Warthog, I have yet to experience the buyers remorse or the issues that you are describing. I use my Warthog stick regularly and have yet to encounter any center slop.

 

As far as cheaper setups like the T.16000 and CH being "superior"? I can't say I can get on board with that. the T.16000 stick (on its own) is a decent entry level stick but its basic layout, lack of controls, and only one hat switch make it less than ideal for HOTAS use. The CH is generally fine in terms of controls but the reliance on potentiometers as opposed to hall sensors will eventually cause accuracy issues by design.

 

Again. To be clear. I am not a Warthog fanboy by any means. I have just used enough HOTAS setups to know that it is not even remotely as bad as you make it out to be. I have my own issues with its design and I do think it could stand to be a bit cheaper but in the broad scheme of things, it is a mid-range HOTAS that only really comes up short when compared to much, much more expensive setups.

[rob10]

If you're not sure he's really going to stick with it (or other flight sims), CH Fighterstick/throttle isn't a bad HOTAS. I went from it to Warthog a 2-3 months ago and I have no regrets doing so and no interest in going back. The WH throttle makes AAR much easier. I learned to AAR with stock WH and no curves at all (I did cheat and have small curves in the first part of the learning). I've never felt the need to use curves permanently. That was hard on the arm -- I'd recommend getting a lighter spring (my arm thanks me every time I fly for the green spring I have in it now :smilewink:). And the slew control definitely is worth replacing.

Honestly, when it comes to curves or mapping, why not play around and see what works for you? To me, start with no curves and then add a little bit at a time if you feel you need to. I can understand people going for full realism and want to map it that way, but if you're not, just play around see what works for YOU (i.e. I have a switch mapped on my HOTAS that presses the appropriate OSB's to cycle waypoints because that gives me greater enjoyment vs full realism).

Edited November 27, 2019 by rob10

[BuzzU]

I used a CH setup for 10 years. It worked ok but I don't consider it great. 4 years ago I got a Warthog. I changed the spring to a lighter green spring and installed a Shapsway AB detent. I've had zero problems with it. No stiction and no slop at all.

[Los]

We have three full flying stations and cockpits at my place I have full Warthog rigs on two many hundreds of hours of use on each and they are outstanding. I have a VKB stick and virpil throttle one another rig, very good too but I prefer the warthog, reliable and feels great.

 

Before the warthog I flew with a CH pro setup for many years, it was reliable too, though plastic, so its a good kit as well. Hope that helps.

 

Los

[dadunn1700]

I have used a pretty wide variety of HOTAS setups and joysticks and even after about a year with my Warthog, I have yet to experience the buyers remorse or the issues that you are describing. I use my Warthog stick regularly and have yet to encounter any center slop.

 

As far as cheaper setups like the T.16000 and CH being "superior"? I can't say I can get on board with that. the T.16000 stick (on its own) is a decent entry level stick but its basic layout, lack of controls, and only one hat switch make it less than ideal for HOTAS use. The CH is generally fine in terms of controls but the reliance on potentiometers as opposed to hall sensors will eventually cause accuracy issues by design.

 

Again. To be clear. I am not a Warthog fanboy by any means. I have just used enough HOTAS setups to know that it is not even remotely as bad as you make it out to be. I have my own issues with its design and I do think it could stand to be a bit cheaper but in the broad scheme of things, it is a mid-range HOTAS that only really comes up short when compared to much, much more expensive setups.

 

I agree. I started with a CH Fighterstick and CH Throttle, then I bought a Thrustmaster Warthog Stick/Throttle, then this past year I bought a Virpil CM2 base, some Foxx Mount deskmounts, and some stick extensions.

 

My Thrustmaster stick and throttle probably have close to 2000 hours on them between DCS and BMS and both are still going strong. I still use my Thrustmaster gimbal as a desk mounted side-stick for the F-16. The Thrustmaster grips are also top notch. Especially if you want an affordable exact replica of the A-10C Warthog and F-16 stick (which can't be bought separately from the Warthog gimbal).

The Virpil gimbal is truly better, but I have no remorse over buying my Warthog and I could still use it as a center stick w/o much complaint. The TM throttle is still my main. I've purchased a cheap plastic 3d printed afterburner detent for the push through afterburner and I have installed the TDC slew upgrade. Works without any issues.

 

Personally, I'd buy the Warthog as a first serious stick and throttle. It is built to work with the DCS A-10C, and if you get more serious (or if your TM gimbal craps out) in the future you can easily purchase the Virpil Warbird base for 169.95 euros (at time of posting, conversion is $187.10 USD) which, by the way, is compatible with ALL the Thrustmaster grips. In essence, you will have an upgraded gimbal with no loss to your Thrustmaster grip's functionality. Not to mention you will still have the TM Throttle which you can make near perfect after filling down a piece of plastic (or buying a cheap afterburner detent online) and spending $50 on a slew upgrade that is easy to install and gives the Throttle xbox thumbstick level control over sensor slewing.

Edited November 27, 2019 by dadunn1700

[flameoutme]

Sorry for simple questions, but I don't fly that much BLUE or know anything about the Hornet.

 

As or right now what's the best way to setup the Hornet?

Do I need a profile for it? Change some defaults? Is Chucks Guide the best for that, or there is a common profile you use?

 

Also, what joystick you guys prefer for that aircraft? He wants Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Joystick For PC with the Hornet Add on, but that's expensive. Do you guys like any other alternative? Like X56 H.O.T.A.S. RGB THROTTLE AND STICK CONTROLLER maybe?

 

He is using VR.

 

I don't see this much covered, but using VR means that some of the features of joysticks/throttles long and lovingly developed over years and years of flight sims are rendered practically useless. The reason is you can't see all the switches in VR. At best you become a 'braille reader'. This kills immersion while increasing frustration for the VR player.

 

So a lot of people will hail a certain joystick/throttle but what's great for the flat-screeners is not necessarily great for the VR player.

 

I'm a VR flyer in DCS exclusively. After consideration of what would really benefit me in VR, I stuck with the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle ($79 on amazon) but use the Thrustmaster warthog joystick.

 

The TWCS throttle in my opinion is far superior for VR because it has only buttons, knobs and switches that you can easily feel and distinguish. On top of that, especially for the newbee it has a rudder paddle. He'll want foot rudders at some point but until then the paddle on the TWS works perfect. Tip: adjust the friction of the throttle via the underside adjustment screw. Very easy and makes the throttle smooth as silk.

 

Now the joystick choice. The warthog joystick is expensive but there is nothing else like it in the universe. I've wasted a lot of money over the years on buying lessor joysticks. The warthog joystick may look more expensive but in the long run is cheaper. And the feeling of the stick is unmatched. It's also great in VR.

 

So because you are cutting out the warthog throttle, you can get the overall set much cheaper than the standard warthog hotas. Got both of mine on Amazon.

 

NOTE: The Thrustsmater 16000m joystick may look attractive price wise, but its not very good for VR. I'd even say it's poor for VR. The buttons you can work by feel alone are few and the flat buttons on the base literally have braille like markings on them for feel. They are almost impossible to effectively use in VR. Don't waste your money (like I did... before buying my Warthog Joystick).

 

Finally, and this is the cheapest add on of them all, he should have VoiceAttack, which is a small piece of software for something like $15. A small learning curve to use, but it is GREAT in vr to take over for some of the keyboard commands that one can't see anymore. Really a great little piece of software. And tell your son it's easy to play music through it when flying. Yeah!

 

Hoped this helped!

Edited November 27, 2019 by flameoutme

[NahkaSukka]

Main board of my Warthog throttle died, found out it's pretty common problem. Got replacement. After about a year the pinkie switch started to act weird, didnt respond, then completely died. Now some buttons on my grip doesnt always work. Some buttons will probably die sooner or later. No, i'm not buying Thrustmaster anymore. It's cheapest Chinese electronic under fancy metal case which gives you a impression that it's quality product, whic it's not.

[BuzzU]

Main board of my Warthog throttle died, found out it's pretty common problem. Got replacement. After about a year the pinkie switch started to act weird, didnt respond, then completely died. Now some buttons on my grip doesnt always work. Some buttons will probably die sooner or later. No, i'm not buying Thrustmaster anymore. It's cheapest Chinese electronic under fancy metal case which gives you a impression that it's quality product, whic it's not.

 

Go to a Rolls Royce dealer and look in the garage. It's full of Rolls being worked on.

 

Nothing is trouble free.

[MegOhm_SD]

Warthog is great for VR with its many buttons/switches. I would not buy in to much on the WH haters.

Its a great setup. It is worth the price. Don’t let the cost be a deciding factor, just make the kid work for it.

 

Mine has been trouble free for the 7-8 years Ive had it. If mine died today I would order another asap.

[nessuno0505]

I enter the discussion about the warthog, since I upgraded to it from a t.16000 flight pack. The word "upgraded" is not used by chance: the throttle is way way better than the one of the t.16000 pack and the stick is... well... better. Nevertheless, the t.16000 is a wonderful entry level, with 200 bucks you can buy it together with the pedals, with a modifier you can play EVERY module, even the hog that is a flying keyboard and - while the throttle is a bit stiff - it is a kind of replica of the hornet's, so well suited for the purpose. The t.16000 stick is very precise, uses the same hall sensors of the warthog, but its problems is that it has very few useful buttons, since the most of them are in a unconfortable position to be useful. The warthog stick instead has a lot of ergonomic buttons and if you love the a-10c you'll have an experience as close as it gets to the real one (not obtainable even with the various virpil and such, unless you buy a compatible high level base and keep the thrustmaster stick). In addition, you can buy the hornet replica stick and use the same base. Is the warthog pack too expensive? Well, in my opinion it's the sweet spot between a cheap from entry to medium level system and a top level one such as virpil or vkb (that cost way more and do not offer any replica of our current modules, unless maybe a tomcat one). If you add the possibility to buy a virpil base in the future to further upgrade the warthog experience, I think you cannot say warthog is crap; not by chance it's the most used system among the community. That said, if your son starts now with the hornet I believe a t.16000 flight pack can be a better first choice. You can always sell it later for a good price and upgrade to the warthog or whatever in the future.

[Bob_Bushman]

I'm just looking to clarify something.

 

Will this be your sons stick, your stick, or for the both of you ?

I know from my own childhood that if wanted something like this, I would be expected to cover the cost, so mowing lawns and whatnot.

 

 

I'm sure it's been talked about a bit and I can throw in my own $.02.

 

CH has stagnated completely, there has been no development, no iteration since the switch to USB 2,0, they have however moved factories and taken a nose dive in QA.

I can no longer recommend CH as relevant at all.

Their user support forum server has even been turned off, that saying something about their interest.

 

Saitek\logitech is fine, yeah it's not perfect, but so wont something that is 3x as expensive be either.

There is nothing really that could be an issue with those that wouldn't be similarly an issue with the more reasonably priced t16000m from Thrustmaster.

 

The warthog, well the warthog is a bit of an odd one.

for 10 or so years it has been the only major offering for a serious sim like DCS.

And since it has been the only HOTAS on the mainstream market for so long that has even tried to do it, it has gotten a rep that I find a little to lenient.

 

It has flaws, and there are shortcuts taken in it's design, but don't get me wrong, it is a very very good setup that will\should last for 4-5+ years without developing to many issues.

Whereas most t16000m's start developing a problem in the twist axis after a year or two.

Then again, the warthog has no twist axis at, and will rely more on pedals, adding to the cost of the setup even further.

 

Personally though I would have to say rudder pedals are a very important piece of a good setup well worth possessing.

 

You can also go all the way batshit crazy, which I consider myself to have done, with a full virpil\MFG setup.

But truth is there really isn't much of anything if at all, I can do with my $1300 Virpil HOTAS that someone with a x56 or even a t16000m cannot do right along side me.

 

There is no guarantee for instance that someone with warthog, or even virpil\VKB hotas will dominate those with lesser kit in a proverbial PVP match, to put it to a point.