GB-6 range seems short compared to spec

[GR Ripcord]

Looking at the specs for the GB-6 is looks like maximum range is 130km(70nm) however the best we can get out of it is 64-83km(35-45nm). Is this a bug or intended, It seems like it should have a better range based on the specs.

Edited December 11, 2019 by [GR] Ripcord

[Ramsay]

Ripcord;4135749']Looking at the specs for the GB-6 is looks like maximum range is 130km (92nm).

 

130 km = ~70 nautical miles (1 nm = 1.852 km)

[L0op8ack]

Ripcord;4135749']Looking at the specs for the GB-6 is looks like maximum range is 130km(70nm) however the best we can get out of it is 64-83km(35-45nm). Is this a bug or intended' date=' It seems like it should have a better range based on the specs.[/quote']

 

 

I think it's launched at very high altitude and initial speed.

and, we dont think the GB6-ER(:)extend range version) is exported.

Edited December 11, 2019 by L0op8ack

[Ramsay]

Ripcord;4135749']... the best we can get out of it is 64-83km(35-45nm).

 

Testing with the GB6 SFW version, 50 nm (~90 km) needed a 525 TAS launch @40,000 ft.

 

To reach longer ranges you'll want to be faster, higher and have less drag.

 

Tested DCS Open Beta 2.5.5.40647

 

Update: best range - 60 nm (~110 km) for a clean JF-17 (1680 lb fuel) with 1*GB6 (SFW), 665 TAS (M1.1) @ 54,000 ft

Edited December 11, 2019 by Ramsay
Test clean aircraft, could only increase range after dropping 1st GB6

[QuiGon]

Does anyone know of any good articles to read up on this weapon?

[Tippis]

Does anyone know of any good articles to read up on this weapon?

Just about the only thing I've found is a bunch of marketing and airshow sales pitches, so hardly “good”… or even “articles”. :D

 

You might have a bit more luck searching for TL500 or 天雷500, but will need to have good translation at hand.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Tippis

[AeriaGloria]

Yeah, even pictures of the SFW are rare. I heard on these forums that these are an old type and there are new ones, but not sure if Pakistan has those

[QuiGon]

Yeah, even pictures of the SFW are rare. I heard on these forums that these are an old type and there are new ones, but not sure if Pakistan has those

That's what I'm wondering too:

- Is this weapon as effective IRL as it is ingame?

- Is it just a prototype or is it in active service?

- If it is in active service, by whom and on what plattform (JF-17 block 2?) and since when?

[Harlikwin]

Hey, dont these questions count as "spy work" ;)

[Terrorban]

Ah nice to see that after ED admitted that SD-10 performance is inacurate and developers will change it, people are coming here to fix another weapon. Guess I'm going back to flying the hornet again. I really don't think anything will ever top the american modules and weapons in DCS.

[AeriaGloria]

I’m sorry Terrorban but you’re the one that brought SD-10 into this. I don’t see anything about SD-10 before you’re post. I think the initial question is a little more innocent then the 20 pages of SD-10 debate we have.

 

Ramsay’s test at 54,000 feet and Mach 1.1 reached 110km, that 6.5%* less then 130km, I think that’s actually pretty close, the FM is supposed to be within 3%. I guess we’ll see if it needs any tweaks, but it’s a very capable weapon as it is

 

EDIT: *I was wrong, always sucked at math, it’s a 15% difference about

Edited December 13, 2019 by AeriaGloria

[Terrorban]

I’m sorry Terrorban but you’re the one that brought SD-10 into this. I don’t see anything about SD-10 before you’re post. I think the initial question is a little more innocent then the 20 pages of SD-10 debate we have.

 

Ramsay’s test at 54,000 feet and Mach 1.1 reached 110km, that 6.5% less then 130km, I think that’s actually pretty close, the FM is supposed to be within 3%. I guess we’ll see if it needs any tweaks, but it’s a very capable weapon as it is

 

 

You are right, that topic is too hot to mention somewhere else. I will stay out of this one and see how it all pans out. If so many of Deka weapons are inaccurate and ED proves it then these developers dont hold much credibility.

 

 

No other module which I have bought before had this much controversy behind it. It was mostly positive improvements to weapons but here it all seems negative.

[ShadowFrost]

I’m sorry Terrorban but you’re the one that brought SD-10 into this. I don’t see anything about SD-10 before you’re post. I think the initial question is a little more innocent then the 20 pages of SD-10 debate we have.

 

Ramsay’s test at 54,000 feet and Mach 1.1 reached 110km, that 6.5%* less then 130km, I think that’s actually pretty close, the FM is supposed to be within 3%. I guess we’ll see if it needs any tweaks, but it’s a very capable weapon as it is

 

EDIT: *I was wrong, always sucked at math, it’s a 15% difference about

 

I think the only issue with this is, what were the launch conditions for the recorded range? As it may be 6.5% under the assumption that they were both launched at Mach 1.1 at 54000 feet.... but I dont assume that to be the case. But then again, I'm not making an argument for performance.

 

If you want to test the LS-6 (I know not GB-6) against a known test variable, try it against the cited range of 36000ft, 485kts, 60km. Because unfortunately, max range is no good without launch conditions for the max range.

 

https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-GBU.html

 

And obviously, your assuming the source is accurate, which I dont have a clue and I dont assume it to be in all honesty. But there is a fully testable set of conditions if you so wish.

[AeriaGloria]

The source for 130km range is from official marketing at Zuhai air show I believe. I don’t know how else popular science would’ve gotten that data at Zuhai 2014. The 60km range given for LS-6 in that ausairpower article is 60km for launch at about 36000 feet and about 486 knots or Mach .85 at that altitude. The source there is the official manufacturer, Luoyang

[ShadowFrost]

The source for 130km range is from official marketing at Zuhai air show I believe. I don’t know how else popular science would’ve gotten that data at Zuhai 2014. The 60km range given for LS-6 in that ausairpower article is 60km for launch at about 36000 feet and about 486 knots or Mach .85 at that altitude. The source there is the official manufacturer, Luoyang

 

Yeah, but even then I still dont trust them. (When there is nothing else to go on use them) I would prefer a CFD analysis to the drag and optimum angle of attack for glide, which would be too hard to do, just no one has done it AFAIK. As numbers from manufacturers may be over stated or understated and there's no way to know. But I agree, its the best place to start for a reference.

[QuiGon]

Ah nice to see that after ED admitted that SD-10 performance is inacurate and developers will change it, people are coming here to fix another weapon. Guess I'm going back to flying the hornet again. I really don't think anything will ever top the american modules and weapons in DCS.

You again... Still not bringing anything valuable to the discussion apart from criticising people for being curious...

 

I don't see anyone having said anything about "fixing" this weapon prior to your comment. I myself have only asked for information about this weapon, as it is a weapon I've never heard about before. It seems like a very powerful weapon, beating every comparable weapon in the west, hence I got curious about its real life usage and history.

 

Sorry if you feel insulted by that for some reason...

Edited December 13, 2019 by QuiGon

[Terrorban]

You again... Still not bringing anything valuable to the discussion apart from criticising people for being curious...

 

I don't see anyone having said anything about "fixing" this weapon prior to your comment. I myself have only asked for information about this weapon, as it is a weapon I've never heard about before. It seems like a very powerful weapon, beating every comparable weapon in the west, hence I got curious about its real life usage and history.

 

Sorry if you feel insulted by that for some reason...

 

 

Like I said before, I am going to stay out of this one. But I will say this though.

 

 

 

Your questions were very specific and clear that you doubt its in game performance and that if it should even be used with the jet.

 

It is the same thing as before. You see some weapon overperforming a nato weapon and then start doubting its in-game representation. If it underperforms, then nobody cares even if it is not modeled accurately.

 

 

BTW, just asking people to give you information is also not bringing anything valuable to the topic.

[Tippis]

It is the same thing as before. You see some weapon overperforming a nato weapon and then start doubting its in-game representation.

At no point did he suggest anything of the kind. This is entirely of your invention.

 

BTW, just asking people to give you information is also not bringing anything valuable to the topic.

Incorrect. It is actually bringing the most valuable part to the topic: the question itself.

[Matchstick]

If you want to test the LS-6 (I know not GB-6) against a known test variable, try it against the cited range of 36000ft, 485kts, 60km. Because unfortunately, max range is no good without launch conditions for the max range.

 

Do we know if anyone has tried this specific test yet ?

 

If not I'll see if I can set it up over the weekend.

 

(I'm meaning to test out the GB-6 generally so makes sense to give these specific conditions a try)

[sylkhan]

That's what I'm wondering too:

- Is this weapon as effective IRL as it is ingame?

Even more..

- Is it just a prototype or is it in active service?

- If it is in active service, by whom and on what plattform (JF-17 block 2?) and since when?

since 2014 on JH-7 for exemple.

 

[ShadowFrost]

Do we know if anyone has tried this specific test yet ?

 

If not I'll see if I can set it up over the weekend.

 

(I'm meaning to test out the GB-6 generally so makes sense to give these specific conditions a try)

 

Those given conditions are for the LS-6, I was just citing as an example and that you could test against those. But for any reference max range, you need to have launch parameters similar to those of what I reference for the LS-6 for any comparison to be accurate. Which I probably will at some point. But even then, you assume that the source is accurate, which I dont. But it still wouldn't hurt to test against.

 

Unfortunately, I have not seen any launch conditions for the GB-6 stated max range so there is not much to go on in terms of testing for accuracy on our end.

Edited December 13, 2019 by ShadowFrost

[witness_me]

best i've been able to get out of the jeff is around 45-46nm (~83km?) EDIT: that wasn't using the loadout in the test mission i attached below - i was trying something somewhat realistic, like 2 * pl5's and 2 gb6's

 

the munition manufacturer is claiming range X if you release it from height Y going at Z knots (with no crosswinds maybe etc) - maybe because the jeff is a small one engine plane it can't match the optimal conditions?

 

i attached a simple mission if you want to do more tests - my optimal release conditions were : 36k ft, doing (almost) mach 0.9 -- EDIT: using the load-out in the mission, but having dropped the tank in advance for the extra ooomph

 

the loadout is one gb6 carrying sensor fused submunitions, one normal. There's 2 targets, a cross-like formation of infantry men around 7 ft from each other (for science!) and 4 t90s in a cross pattern. There's 2 preprogrammed map points so you can deploy using pp mode. What's located at each PP is in the mission briefing

 

there's also 2 * ls6 in case there's any survivors :P

jf17 TARGET PRACTICE MISSION (gb6 and ls6).miz

Edited December 15, 2019 by witness_me

[Tippis]

best i've been able to get out of the jeff is around 45-46nm

 

 

 

the munition manufacturer is claiming range X if you release it from height Y going at Z knots (with no crosswinds maybe etc) - maybe because the jeff is a small one engine plane it can't match these optimal conditions?

This sounds like a very plausible explanation. In addition, there's also the difference between what's actually possible and what the aircraft reports as remotely likely — if all you're going by is the release cue on the HSI page, chances are that this is based on rather cautious assumptions rather than the absolute maximum.

[witness_me]

i was thinking the same but in some tests, when i was releasing exactly when the dotted line to the target was turning solid in the hsi or just a couple of seconds afterwards, the weapon wouldn't be able to reach the targets :confused:

 

also the targeting computer doesn't seem to be taking into account submunition release altitudes, i.e. if you set the release altitude to 1.5k ft the minimum distance indicator will be the same as in say a release altitude of 300ft, although i didn't test that thoroughly and i'm likely to deny i ever made that claim if proven wrong :P

[AeriaGloria]

Not sure BR altitude and the altitude in the CNTRL menu are working yet. Atleast for GB-6