DCS: Black Shark - Q&A **READ FIRST!**

[Guest Su-35BM]

Do you have in mind(in future) to create an add-on for Su-35BM?

It will be fantastic!

[Trident]

Yes, but not quite as simple. There will be a 'position hold' command, but then it gets complicated with different options. After repositioning yourself, you can send a "continue mission" command like in LO or you can lock up the target and use the rather unrealistic "attack my target" command or you can go hardcore and use the datalink to send out the targets. In any case, it won't be quite as clean as pop-up, shoot, and pop back down (:huh:) again and especially for the last, most complex and interesting approach, will require quite a bit of planning and cockpit magic.

 

Well, that's all the better of course! One thing I really want to stress is that the wingman should automatically play it safe and remask after the attack unless the player explicitly tells him to continue attacking. We've all seen the suicidal acts that LOMAC AI units are liable to commit if left to their own devices once they've gone into attack/kamikaze mode ;) BTW, can you also leave target selection to the wingman and just tell him to unmask and fire on any enemy unit he sees (or perhaps restricting him to airdefence units, but not preselect an individual target for him)? Do we have the choice of telling all wingmen to pop up simultaneously or just one or two of them in particular? And last but not least: will the wingies attempt to avoid contact with the enemy when I tell them to rejoin formation or are they likely to cut straight across the dangerzone to get to my own position?

 

Thanks in advance!

[VS461]

General

 

Hi evyone!

I have a question about the autopilot of the Ka-50. In Mi-24s, there's a dual-mode AP, one for stabilization around the 3 axis (N, K and T) and one for working like a fixed-wing AP: airspeed stabilization, baro alt hold, course (NOT heading!) hold, auto hover with or without radioalt hold and final approach with RSBN. It is a nice, useful stuff. Fly (and definitely hover) without AP is a good character training:). I've tried Nemeth Brothers' Mi-24P add-on in FS9 but AP didn't work in no way (and I think FS9 engine does not really support rotorcrafts: a 12 ton warbird's flight dyn must be different from an R-22's. Not Nemeth Bros' fault:worthy:). How will the Ka-50 AP work? Will there be difference between fly w/ or w/o AP? Will the weight be sensible? If once it starts to breakdance around itself w/o AP... For the first try it's a full aerobatics flight at 1 m!

THX for Your help!

[britgliderpilot]

Hi evyone!

I have a question about the autopilot of the Ka-50. In Mi-24s, there's a dual-mode AP, one for stabilization around the 3 axis (N, K and T) and one for working like a fixed-wing AP: airspeed stabilization, baro alt hold, course (NOT heading!) hold, auto hover with or without radioalt hold and final approach with RSBN. It is a nice, useful stuff. Fly (and definitely hover) without AP is a good character training:). I've tried Nemeth Brothers' Mi-24P add-on in FS9 but AP didn't work in no way (and I think FS9 engine does not really support rotorcrafts: a 12 ton warbird's flight dyn must be different from an R-22's. Not Nemeth Bros' fault:worthy:). How will the Ka-50 AP work? Will there be difference between fly w/ or w/o AP? Will the weight be sensible? If once it starts to breakdance around itself w/o AP... For the first try it's a full aerobatics flight at 1 m!

THX for Your help!

 

Well Black Shark's flight dynamics are infinitely better than FS9's . . . so you need not worry on that front.

 

As you can see from the startup videos, there is autostabilisation functionality on the Ka50. And yes, it's properly modelled and you can turn it off.

[Wags]

Regarding targeting navigation system modes, there will be quite a lot to keep you busy: attitude stabilization mode, hover stabilization mode, vertical decent mode, enroute automatic flight mode, course automatic flight mode, return mode, ingress mode, INU update mode, target position record mode, and turn mode.

[GGTharos]

Page 5: Could we get these taken into consideration? :)

 

http://www.vmi.edu/uploadedFiles/Archives/Adams_Center/EssayContest/20042005/HigbyP_0405.pdf

[VS461]

General

 

Hi evyone,

I have some questions about the BS aerodynamics solutions.

1. In Mi-24s, when I pull the collective intensively, the rotor RPM starts to fall until the engines have enough power to the higher blade AoA and etc. If I was too intensive I can lose the rotor RPM until the main generators' shutdown (that causes many unwanted thingz: AP, de-icer etc. offline). Is it imitated in BS? I've played EE2 but for the Ka-52 there was that "engine overtorque" sh*t. TV3-117s don't have that thing.

2. Will there be differences between low approaches in the ground effect zone and high approaches out of that zone (power required, possibility of vortex ring during slowdown)?

3. In Mi-24s, an intensive cyclic pull with high collective and airspeed can cause enormous G and pitch angle increase with only tiny climb ("podhvat" in Ru, maybe rotor stall in Eng). In this state a pull-up from a dive doesn't mean climb and the helo can crash (from low level, of course). Can I perform a similar thing in BS? :D

 

Think it's a bit boring from me referring to Hinds continuously. I know BS is not a Hind sim :music_whistling: I just waiting for a Ru warbird helo sim long time ago...:joystick: so I am very sorry.

THX for your help!

[britgliderpilot]

1. Yes, in theory. The generators are linked to rotor RPM, and you can cause some serious rotor RPM decay with a heavy aircraft. You'll have to try hard . . .

 

Bet you could do it on a single engine, though.

 

 

2. Ground effect and vortex ring are modelled, as are atmospheric effects. I think the Caucasus does does get high enough to get out of the recommended altitude range, but you probably won't be flying takeoffs or landings up there.

 

 

3. I don't know the effect you describe - sounds a bit like vortex ring in that it's high airspeed up through the rotor disk.

 

The entry conditions you descibe - high airspeed, hard pull, lots of collective, high G - sound like the perfect recipe for a blade clash in a Ka50. Since vortex ring is modelled I'd expect your condition would be possible . . . if you don't break the blades off first ;)

[-sulan-]

^ Awesome!! :D

I have a few questions about keycommands: Will there be more alternative controls for functions? Like: Toggle gear, lower gear and raise gear (I know those are in LO) for example, but for other things as well? That'd be nice me thinks so that one can have even more freedom to customise his cockpit...

 

Also, can we have different control mappings for different aircraft (when others are released)? And different settings for the axes? :joystick:

 

Thanks!

[VS461]

General

 

Hi,

I'm trying to describe "podhvat" state (will be interesting in Eng :)). As I pull the cyclic for a jump, the airflow comes from beneath the rotor. This tinily increases the rotor RPM (a bit of autorotation added to engines' power). If I pull the cyclic hard with high collective and at high airspeed (for a jump or during a pull-up from dive), the airflow from beneath will be added to the intensively down-swooping backside blades and this side of the rotor will stall. Mi-24's wings add a shielding effect to this: at high pitch angle only turbulent or none airflow can reach the back side of the rotor. On older helos, the high forces cause the block of the hydraulic booster so I cannot push forward the cyclic. If I can, this will extend blade stall zone on the back...

Increased lift on the front side of the rotor (due to the hard pull) and stall on the back: enormous pitch angle (40-50° or more), high G-force (over 2) and rotor RPM (100-110%) momentarily. The NRs will regulate down (or to idle) due to high RPM and as the helo starts to come out from the "podhvat" state by herself, this causes loss of rotor RPM (jet engines w/o FADEC are slow), gens shutdown etc... Serious rotor RPM increase can cause both engines' shutdown.

Helos do not built for 9 G, so after a "podhvat" the ground crew have to examine the gearbox, the airframe, rotor etc.

Avoiding "podhvat": start a jump with mid collective (50-60%) and do not pull cyclic hard to BEGIN a jump/pull-up. Then, IN these manoeuvres you can pull the cyclic thru your belly :D.

As you recognize a starting "podhvat", slightly lower the collective (1-2%) and try to make an "overruddered" turn instead of pushing the cyclic. In Mi-24s (Mi-8s) a left turn will relieve the rotor a bit. And try to act with the collective as a brain surgeon with his scalpel to hold rotor RPM in the normal zone.

Maybe I could explain this thing in a nutshell :). And a big :poster_offtopic: for me... sorry!

And you are right, Britgliderpilot, in a similar state a Ka-50's first doing would be a blade clash...

THX for your help, anyway. Of course I will try these things:joystick:

[RvETito]

Hi evyone,

I have some questions about the BS aerodynamics solutions.

1. In Mi-24s, when I pull the collective intensively, the rotor RPM starts to fall until the engines have enough power to the higher blade AoA and etc. If I was too intensive I can lose the rotor RPM until the main generators' shutdown (that causes many unwanted thingz: AP, de-icer etc. offline). Is it imitated in BS? I've played EE2 but for the Ka-52 there was that "engine overtorque" sh*t. TV3-117s don't have that thing.

 

Thats' modelled in BS, although it is not that significant as for single rotor helo(Mi-8/24) because the coaxial rotor has much better lift efficiency and for one and the same lift force you would need less collective compared to the classic design. Currently in the beta there are some things to be tuned about the powerplant (rotor model) which now works pretty much like in a single rotor chopper. By "engine overtorque" if you mean power (free) turbine overspeed it is in the sim and works like IRL.

 

2. Will there be differences between low approaches in the ground effect zone and high approaches out of that zone (power required, possibility of vortex ring during slowdown)?

 

RIG(rotor-in-ground) effect is modelled, same is vortex ring. You really have to pay attention to your variometer while descending at low altitude.

 

3. In Mi-24s, an intensive cyclic pull with high collective and airspeed can cause enormous G and pitch angle increase with only tiny climb ("podhvat" in Ru, maybe rotor stall in Eng). In this state a pull-up from a dive doesn't mean climb and the helo can crash (from low level, of course). Can I perform a similar thing in BS? :D

 

Podhvat- hehe, I have forgotten that term since university. It has different nature in coaxial design. Because of the symmetry the retreating blade stall will occur for the lower rotor to the left and the upper to the right, which means that the resultant lift force will not have normally lateral component(from the increased rotor cone inclination). The only trouble that brings is the blades intersection posibility like britgliderpilot said- that will even more reduce the gap between the two rotors on the right hand side. You can only achieve it after violating the flight limitations and one basic rule- pay EXTREME caution when you apply right pedal input. For left pedal there are no limitations but the right takes lifes, especially in the situation you describe- high speed, hard pull on the cyclic- push just a lil bit the right pedal and the next thing you gonna do is to pull the ejection handles :D

 

To illustrate you the difference between Mi-24 and Ka-50 in that area- the pilots that have flown the Ka-50 in Chechnya have had serious background with Mi-24. They describe typical situation- flying in a valey at high speed, attack, huge explosion, nowhere to run- behind is the wingman, on the left and right are the ridges- no room for a turn, in front- a 1000m peak. Solution- straight ahead- at speed near the maximum- cyclic to the belly to set 40-50 deg pitch angle, collective up to the limit and Ka-50 has climbed these 1000m for a lil more than... 30s- 30m/s sustained rate of climb. No single rotor helo can match that.

[RvETito]

Hi,

Increased lift on the front side of the rotor (due to the hard pull) and stall on the back: enormous pitch angle (40-50° or more), high G-force (over 2) and rotor RPM (100-110%) momentarily. The NRs will regulate down (or to idle) due to high RPM and as the helo starts to come out from the "podhvat" state by herself, this causes loss of rotor RPM (jet engines w/o FADEC are slow), gens shutdown etc... Serious rotor RPM increase can cause both engines' shutdown.

 

In this case you should pull even more the collective- first you will highly increase the rate of climb and second you will not allow the rotor to overspeed. Like I wrote in my previous post- the Ka-50 is a true catapult when you try that.

 

Do you mean that the 'podhvat' occurs at constant collective? Then I agree but I fail to see the point of such maneuver, you'll not climb neither slow down in the most efective way. Usualy the cyclic pitch control and the collective go hand by hand:

- Pitch down+collective up=acceleration;

- Pitch up+collective down=decceleration;

- Pitch down+collective down=descend without overspeeding the rotor;

- Pitch up+collective up= maximum rate of climb;

[VS461]

General

 

Hi, AirTito,

I thought some about podhvat :book:: by lowering the collective a bit I will relieve the stalling blades on my back. On the other side: raising a bit stops the rotor RPM at that moment. Podhvat is always a discussed thing to us... there's only a very few seconds to do sth.

BTW, during a jump it is able to raise the collective into armpit and it causes a real huge lift :). But to begin a jump hard with high collective, or with pulling collective till the cockpit ceiling...

Of course, the guys in Chechnya would be true instructors to us. If I were under fire, I won't look at the G-force indicator so much...

And a thing: rookie pilots are trained to jump with constant collective to learn the helo manoeuvring. Or to learn the limits bw podhvat and no podhvat. This can be enough at first times :D... that maximum lifting thing are for not-so-rookies...

THX!

[-akyla-]

I have a question that i think has been asked many times.. its about these new 3D models of Mig-29, Su-27, Su-25 ED made, this has been discussed but i don't remember any decent answer so, will they make it to BS ?:noexpression:

[EvilBivol-1]

I have a question that i think has been asked many times.. its about these new 3D models of Mig-29, Su-27, Su-25 ED made, this has been discussed but i don't remember any decent answer so, will they make it to BS ?:noexpression:

Most likely not into the release, as there are other models which have taken priority for now. They will come when ready.

[Weta43]

Most likely not into the release, as there are other models which have taken priority for now. They will come when ready.

 

You can't release BS with the Su-25 looking the way it does ! it's a ground pounding sim, & that's the roughest model in the game!

Presumably you're (ED anyway, if not you personally) going to include the A-10 model that's been developed by the community - how about giving them what's been done on the Su-25 & letting them finish it off - or getting them to do what's left, because the model that ED showed looked pretty much finished...

 

Seriously - How much effort can really be involved in getting this ready for release as an AI controlled plane ?

(or is the plan to hold back on both models till they come out with their respective modules ?)

& a close up if you're interested:

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=10383&d=1175860921

[EvilBivol-1]

Seriously - How much effort can really be involved in getting this ready for release as an AI controlled plane ?

That depends on whether the animations, LODs, skins and damage model are completed. If not, it still leaves a good chunk of work. In any case, I don't know ED's definitive plans for these new models, but here are the two facts that I do know: one - none of the three new models (MiG-29, Su-25, Su-27) are in DCS today and two - Chizh said a couple of months a go that higher priority models have taken the front seat. I'm not sure where things stand today, so all we can say is that they will be in the project when ready. My own guess - not in the release.

Presumably you're (ED anyway, if not you personally) going to include the A-10 model that's been developed by the community...

Not sure about that, either. I think that's strictly a community project. I would imagine that ED would make their own, in-house A-10 model for the A-10 module.

[Weta43]

EB1 - you're dashing my quiet hopes at every turn :-)

No gusting wind, no new Su-25 model ...

 

Oh well - I'll just have to content myself with the Ka-50, new map, new ME, new units, improved AI etc....

Life is hard.

[Cyclic]

Worries

 

Howdy,

 

I have not been on the forum much of late at all but after taking a spin through the questions and asnwers being sent in I see a lot of concern about aircraft models and skins ect ect. What i dont see a lot of concern about (unless i have missed the threads) is the terrain modeling. Now as an old avid member of the Falcon4 community i use to see people spending hours on aircraft modeling (not Flight Model) but exterior looks and for what reason as the only time you get close enough to admire this is maybe on taxi. Flight and cockpit modeling are the most important aspects IMHO.

 

BS is to be released as a Helo sim, I use to spend hours flying LB2 and when I heard about BS I was well made up as we have not seen this quality of Helo sim ever. Everyone keeps asking for Fighter and ground support aircraft to be included and I feel this is defeating the object of having a Helo sim if resources are wasted on something we already have in lockon. I do agree maybe the SU25 and A10 should be included at a later date especially if we see the AH64 comming to the arena but what does concern me most is the terrain modeling not being good enough for NOE flight especially the masking abilities required from trees and buiding to make you more effective.

 

Another issue of course is the Ground Unit AI getting some sort of work over to make them react better to helo Attack. Looking for cover etc.

 

Im sure the above has already been covered but if someone could save me hours of digging through the forum and just drop a 2 line answer to if any serious concern is being given and in what form I would appreciate it. IMHO the NOE terrain currently in LockonFC is great at 1500AGL but sucks at low level.

 

I am ready for a flamming from the Jet Jockies but I just need to know what to expect from BS.

 

Cheers

 

 

Cyclic:music_whistling:

[amalahama]

What about soldiers?? Have you decided if Black Shark will come with that??

 

Regards!!!!

[RvETito]

Well Cyclic, I can only tell you that the terrain in BS has twice the details of FC- both the mesh and the textures. Trees are also completely new. Of course, how you feel about that is quiet subjective- you might like it or not. Depends on your preferences and expectations. But you gotta know that because of the nature of this sim (chopper- low flying, masking) particular attention has been paid to the terrain.

 

I suggest you to take a look at the features section of the DCS site, if you havent done yet.

[EvilBivol-1]

EB1 - you're dashing my quiet hopes at every turn :-)

No gusting wind, no new Su-25 model ...

I'm harsh. If you prefer, I could just lie. :) I think this is just a consequence of opening up for questions. Inevitably, a lot of people would like to see a lot of features, but there is a very finite limit of what can be coded for any given period. The bottomless wishlist. Plus, our attitude in discussing the product pre-release is to try and prevent false expectations. Until we're absolutely sure a feature is in and working in the code, we'd rather keep it as a "maybe" at best. Though some people will still claim broken promises... But keep in mind, there are some Black Shark features that we haven't really discussed yet. Also, I can't emphasize enough - Black Shark is only the first installment in what will hopefully be a long and continually growing simulation line.

What about soldiers?? Have you decided if Black Shark will come with that??

Though not official, I think it's now safe to assume so.

[Glowing_Amraam]

Though not official, I think it's now safe to assume so.

 

I'd say it's official, considering Jim Mack stated this in an interview :)

[EvilBivol-1]

Word. :)

[amalahama]

Wow, thanks!! Army is a great thing for player inmersion. I can't wait!!

 

Regards!!!