Apache damage modeling

[Force_Feedback]

Thanks, so it really is just some hillbilly armor bolted onto seats, oh well, that's why they practice attack runs by going form high to low, to spend as little time possible to sustain small arms fire.

[Guest Gunslinger]

Thanks, so it really is just some hillbilly armor bolted onto seats,

 

Hello Force, the entire seat is made of the armored Kevlar/Ceramic material. It is not just bolted on in strategic locations. The upper side wings are bolted on of course to facilitate adjustment. The seat pan completely covers the occupant’s hips and thighs. The armored wings cover his shoulders and bicep area.

 

So shots from angles that are below/side/behind the helicopter are not so much a factor. I.e. majority of scenarios.

 

If per some chance the shot were to come from a parallel elevation to the side and forward, like flying through a valley and the shooter was on a hillside and fwd of the ship or something, then perhaps a bullet might be able to make it into the cockpit to impact the occupant’s torso, highly unlikely, the angle would have to be perfect, but possible I guess. This angle also puts the shooter in the line-of-sight of the cockpit crew. And one of the things the Apache’s design provides for is truly excellent visibility which only heightens the crews SA, so muzzleflash, tracers etc. coming from this angle will be readily visible.

 

On a side note, the seats are also designed with an energy absorption system that will reduce the crash impact force transmitted to the occupant to some amazing percentage of the total impact force. Can’t remember the specs off the top of my head, but it’s really incredible. Something like a decel rate of 15g. So you’ll black out for sure, but otherwise survive your 50g impact.

 

Also, armor is tested at full muzzle velocity (this for the “thrown” comment). Since the projectile will slow in flight and distance, I would tend to trust the seats 12.7mm/50. Cal rating. Especially since most angles will take the round through other portions of the aircraft before impact on the seat’s armor directly. I.e FABs etc.

[bradmick]

I've heard some stories about just how truly survivable this bird is. Sure, she may seem all finesse and weak, but when it comes down to it from talking to guys in theater...she'll bring you home every time. Sure she doesn't have the armor of a hind, but she has way better performance because she's not wickedly weighed down with a bazillion (exhageration) tons of armor. Was talking to some of our guys who've actually gotten to fly hinds as Op For, and they say while the Hind is a wicked piece of hardware, it is a pain to get off the ground because of all the armor its got, way overloaded. Lots of rolling take offs as a minimum. But, I suppose that goes for any helo operating in that general part of the world. Everyone planned for a conventional European war in normal temperature ranges, not running around in the worst possible place on earth for a Turbine engine.

 

I really don't worry that the clear panels on my bird don't provide much in the way of protection, because 9 times out of 10 i'm going to be able to pick off my targets from altitude with ease and not have to worry about them nailing me with small arms. My thoughts anyway.

 

Brad

[Sundowner.pl]

By the way, some serious time ago I was talking with two Navy helo pilots - both at the time flying Mi-14s, but had experience with flying Mi-2/4/6/8/17, really experienced guys, and they had a fun of the Mi-24 jocks. Their joke was that the Mi-17 was more survivable attack helicopter than the Hind, because:

"When a Striela hit you, it will fly through the 'paper-like' fuselage, without setting of its fuse, when in the case of the Hind - when the missile hit that 'armor' it will definitely BLOW UP"

 

Of course this is total bravo sierra, but nonetheless a funny thought :smilewink:

[bradmick]

Heheh, I do remember hearing a story that the Russians learned the hard way that placement of national markings should be a little better thought out in Afghanistan. Don't know how accurate it is, but I guess originally the Star was placed in the exact spot the aft fuel tank was situated and gave the Afghanis a sweet spot to aim for, generally resulted in an instant bad day for the Hind pilot.

 

Brad

[leafer]

Well, it's the prettiest looking attack helicopter out there that's for sure.

[AlphaOneSix]

"When a Strela hit you, it will fly through the 'paper-like' fuselage, without setting of its fuse, when in the case of the Hind - when the missile hit that 'armor' it will definitely BLOW UP"

 

As a current Mi-17 crew chief (and former AH-64A crew chief) flying in a combat zone, this gave me a chuckle. :D

[Sundowner.pl]

Hey, didn't know you're flying Hips now, man I have to get Cygan here, he's Mi-24 crew chief, maybe you both could have a laugh together :thumbup:

[AlphaOneSix]

Hey, didn't know you're flying Hips now

 

 

Yeah, and I love them. You can learn a lot about the "Russian mindset" by looking at how they build helicopters. Very different from the "Western" way of doing things.

 

I was watching the BS startup video and I'm blown away by how similar many of the gauges are and how they operate in the game just like they do for real. For example, APU EGT, Engine PTIT (synonymous with EGT), the clock, the N1 (or NG or NGG) and N2 (or NR or NFT) gauges are exactly the same, and the engine startup procedure is identical, right down to the N1 "bump" (the way the N1 needle bounces when it first starts) and subsequent opening of the fuel stopcock. Amazing attention to detail.

 

Of note, I just watched "Producers Note#1" and during engine start the narrator refers to the RPM reading of the engine and rotor as actual RPM values, but the gauge is in percent, not actual values. For example, he says to introduce fuel at "1600 RPM", but the gauge is reading 16%, not 1600. The actual RPM is much higher than that. He does the same thing with the rotor speed, the gauge reads in percent, and not actual RPM. 100% RPM is about 220 actual RPM on the blades (I think...not sure exact value on Ka-50).

[Yellonet]

Yeah, and I love them. You can learn a lot about the "Russian mindset" by looking at how they build helicopters. Very different from the "Western" way of doing things.

 

I was watching the BS startup video and I'm blown away by how similar many of the gauges are and how they operate in the game just like they do for real. For example, APU EGT, Engine PTIT (synonymous with EGT), the clock, the N1 (or NG or NGG) and N2 (or NR or NFT) gauges are exactly the same, and the engine startup procedure is identical, right down to the N1 "bump" (the way the N1 needle bounces when it first starts) and subsequent opening of the fuel stopcock. Amazing attention to detail.

 

Of note, I just watched "Producers Note#1" and during engine start the narrator refers to the RPM reading of the engine and rotor as actual RPM values, but the gauge is in percent, not actual values. For example, he says to introduce fuel at "1600 RPM", but the gauge is reading 16%, not 1600. The actual RPM is much higher than that. He does the same thing with the rotor speed, the gauge reads in percent, and not actual RPM. 100% RPM is about 220 actual RPM on the blades (I think...not sure exact value on Ka-50).

Making Wags look bad on his own "home" :banned:;)

[AlphaOneSix]

Making Wags look bad on his own "home"

 

 

My apologies, I don't mean to make anyone look bad. These kinds of things are easy to mistake if you are not very familiar with the systems or have a lot of experience in other aircraft. As an example, Eurocopter aircraft (and I'm assuming most other European helicopters) usually have gauges that read the actual RPM of the engines and rotor, instead of a percentage, while American and Russian aircraft use percentages of "max" instead of a straight value.

[Yellonet]

My apologies, I don't mean to make anyone look bad. These kinds of things are easy to mistake if you are not very familiar with the systems or have a lot of experience in other aircraft. As an example, Eurocopter aircraft (and I'm assuming most other European helicopters) usually have gauges that read the actual RPM of the engines and rotor, instead of a percentage, while American and Russian aircraft use percentages of "max" instead of a straight value.

I was joking :) Not that I speak on Matt's behalf, but he really seems to be a great guy that wouldn't be offended by something like this. And as you said it's an easy mistake, no one but you even mentioned it :D

[Groove]

Thanks for pointing this one out AlphaOneSix.

[Wags]

No offense taken. With my nose primarily buried in the A-10A/C and Apache over the last couple years, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a Ka-50 expert... but I did stay in a Holiday Inn.

[Outlaw24]

Sort of hard to believe this helicopter flew back to base, but if it did, the pilot was damn good and says a lot about the Apache.

[Force_Feedback]

I also remember a video, made in Israel, and all that was coming down were the main rotors. All the grim facts aside, the Ka-50 is very agile and its crew cabin is well armored, so flight characteristics-wise the Ka-50 will be missed when the Apache mod is done.