What is the proper use of Collective Corrector?

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Should it be at max all the time to prevent settling with power. Or adjusted to follow collective , as more power is demanded.

 

I am an MI-8 virgin. Doing the free month. I have KA-50, Gazzele, and UH-1H.

[Art-J]

Could you be more specific about what you mean by collective corrector?

 

In all normal flight conditions (ie. no engine failure or combat damage), you leave twist throttle grip on max (governor takes care of the rotor and engine RPMs) and both individual engine condition levers on center detent.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

In Axis Commands for MI-8MTV2 there is an Axis called "Corrector"

 

When flying , with controls visible, there is Corrector co-positional with Collective.

 

WHat is that for? What does it correct. Throttles in MI-8 are under control of governor, or so I thought. The throttle levers are overhead , colored orange.

[Holton181]

In Axis Commands for MI-8MTV2 there is an Axis called "Corrector"

 

When flying , with controls visible, there is Corrector co-positional with Collective.

 

WHat is that for? What does it correct. Throttles in MI-8 are under control of governor, or so I thought. The throttle levers are overhead , colored orange.

It's the twist-grip on the collective you are talking about? That should always be fully to the right (maximum ON so to say) during normal operation after a full startup.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

OK. Thank you makes sense. SO its a throttle lever. Like in piston engined helicopters, and for fuel introduction in turbine engines on start up.

[Holton181]

OK. Thank you makes sense. SO its a throttle lever. Like in piston engined helicopters, and for fuel introduction in turbine engines on start up.

 

Not really, but close enough. The throttles are the red ones above your head, as you already confirmed. I think the manual might give you a system description what the corrector really is. Otherwise there are some really good documents about different systems on the Mi-8 written by a real life Mi-8 mechanic (AlfaOneSix I believe is his nick) somewhere on this forum that certainly can explain it. Unfortunately I can't explain it.

[zerO_crash]

If you mean the N2 turbine trim switch on the collective then here is the answer from a real Mi17 (Mi8/17 being the same regarding flight technique and flight dynamics, if the engines are the same that is) pilot:

 

"The N2 trim switch is only used to get the N2 setting on the engine trimmed to the right spot, it's not something that is used after that. We set it before the first takeoff by pulling the collective (without taking off) until the collective pitch angle shows 3 degrees, then using the trim switch to set the rotor speed at 95%. We don't touch it again unless we notice that during cruise flight the rotor speed is creeping up above 95%, in which case we'll trim it down to 95%. I can't recall ever having to trim it up from below 95% in cruise. That setting can be used to cheat a few extra percent of rotor speed but it won't make any difference when you are actually pulling in a lot of power. In other words, if the engine is temp or N1 limited already, beeping up the rotor speed with that trim switch will have no effect."

 

Hope it helps ;)

[Art-J]

I would't call the red handles over our heads "throttles", because they're strictly fuel shutoff levers for engines, ON/OFF, with nothing inbetween.

[Holton181]

I would't call the red handles over our heads "throttles", because they're strictly fuel shutoff levers for engines, ON/OFF, with nothing inbetween.

Ah, yes you are correct, my mistake.

[AlphaOneSix]

The twist grip on the collective is the combined throttle. It does the same thing that the ECL's do , but for both engines concurrently. The ECL's are for individual engine throttle control. Full left on the twist throttle is idle, and full right is automatic (fuel control/governor).

 

And the red overhead levers are fuel cutoff levers, as has been mentioned. They stop/start fuel from the fuel control into the fuel manifold/fuel nozzles.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Thank you.

 

In Options/Special/MI-8MTV2

Is Autopilot Adjustment , when ON a cheat? Or is it real world? Wings Of Red Star : Red Rotors episode states that MI-8 had extremely sophisticated autopilot 'for its time'. Is this adjustment part of that, or just a crutch for DCS pilots to make it easier to fly.

[Holton181]

Thank you.

 

In Options/Special/MI-8MTV2

Is Autopilot Adjustment , when ON a cheat? Or is it real world? Wings Of Red Star : Red Rotors episode states that MI-8 had extremely sophisticated autopilot 'for its time'. Is this adjustment part of that, or just a crutch for DCS pilots to make it easier to fly.

With the risk of being even more wrong than I have already been in this thread (sorry), the Autopilot Adjustment isn't a cheat per se. The autopilot channels need periodic adjustments, done by the flight engineer/mechanic or whatever the Russians call him, the guy in the middle.

In DCS you can opt for doing it yourself, or turn the Autopilot Adjustment ON. I haven't tested it myself, but from my understanding whenever the AP needs adjustment, a call out from the engineer is heard and the adjustments start. Then you need to be ready and adjust the flight controls accordingly (cyclic and collective) to keep your desired attitude. When the engineer is done with the adjustment, you can let go of the controls again.

Regarding the overall usage of the AP I suggest a read up in the manual.

 

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[Art-J]

In DCS you can opt for doing it yourself, or turn the Autopilot Adjustment ON. I haven't tested it myself, but from my understanding whenever the AP needs adjustment, a call out from the engineer is heard and the adjustments start.

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I seem to recall we used to have two options for this:

 

a) virtual 3rd guy was making and calling out adjustments only after you ordered him to do so via separate key command. I think this feature was removed quite a few versions ago;

 

b) virtual 3rd guy does the adjustments all the time without your order. That's what happens when that option is turned ON in current version.

 

I agree it's not a cheat per se. In real chopper there are three crew members for a reason. Nothing wrong about using AI flight engineer for autopilot adjustment in Mi-8, just like there's nothing wrong about using AI Jester in F-14 module.

[bolek]

a) virtual 3rd guy was making and calling out adjustments only after you ordered him to do so via separate key command. I think this feature was removed quite a few versions ago;

No, it's still there. It's called "Adjust Autopilot" in the controls options (RAlt-A by default).

[randomTOTEN]

I just checked my bindings, the "Corrector" is the twist action of the throttle.

 

 

No, it's still there. It's called "Adjust Autopilot" in the controls options (RAlt-A by default).

 

 

Neat!

[AlphaOneSix]

The control desk for the autopilot (the little control panel on the center console) has its own gyros built into it, and they do precess over time just like any other gyro, so they need occasional adjustments. I have worked with crews that operate with a flight engineer, and one of his (or her!) duties is to watch for this precession and occasionally correct it by twisting the adjustment knobs on the control desk. So considering you are typically one person flying an Mi-8, it is not a cheat at all to enable automatic autopilot adjustments.

 

In my personal experience, we don't use a flight engineer (although sometimes I wish we did) and instead add two crew chiefs in the cabin (all of our aircraft have left and right sliding doors). This means that the pilots have to monitor the autopilot, although they usually don't. What usually happens is that one channel (usually roll) will precess all the way to one side or the other, and then the pilot will notice that he has input more cyclic one way or the other than he would expect...then he looks at the control desk and then asks the pilot not on the controls to make the adjustment. It's not a big deal at all and how long it takes for the precession to happen can vary wildly. I have had experiences where the roll channel would basically "fall over" in the course of about 20 minutes, and I've also seen flights go several hours without needing any adjustments.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

With Autopilot Adjustment ON, hovering IGE and OGE is very easy in this th'ang. Much easier then in Gazelle, and somewhat easier then in UH-1H, and slightly easier then in KA-50. Becouse I was able to do it on second day, I was concerned that perhaps the sim itself has eased hovering in MI-8. I have not yet done autohover. One issue I working out is a bit of trouble with settling. I entered, inadvertently, settling condition from OGE hover, descent to T/D with -3 m/s . Even with speed, into wind, of 10 KIAS (or Kph), I can still enter settling condition if vv of -3 m/s to -5 m/s. So I pay much closer attention of vario.

[Tiger-II]

The "corrector" is a MECHANICAL linkage to what we think of as "throttle".

 

It's a device that automatically increases power (throttle) when collective is pulled IN ADDITION to the governor that tries to maintain RPM.

 

The corrector literally corrects for a short-fall in RPM based off collective physical position only.

 

It's a crude yet effective mechanism.

 

Many piston helicopters have such devices, otherwise every change of collective (pitch) requires a throttle change, which can get tiresome.

 

Less pitch, less throttle. More pitch, more throttle. A simple hack? Add a mechanism to make small throttle changes. :D

Edited April 24, 2020 by Tiger-II

[msalama]

sim itself has eased hovering in MI-8

 

It has not. Try with a crappy short-throw cheapo JS and you'll see that it's as hellishly hard as always.

[Jafferson]

Do you mean the ENGINE CONDITION LEVERS ?