The_GOZR Posted January 10, 2008 Author Posted January 10, 2008 First i think it's important to clarify the meaning of "Hardcore" To me.. It is the plane with less goodies that will make the job done due to good stick talent and due to reduced avionics. Meaning the plane with less electronics, less automatics that will have to rely more on Human input and jugement in this sim at list ... A plane that you will have to breeze into your enemy's neck to kill it not half a world apart... And this one here it is called the MiG-29A. What is your take on it? Thx guys i think this is an excellent subject and many can learn about specifics aircraft and their favorite and i'm one of them..
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I guess you could say the MiG-29A is hard core then. However, since I would like to survive, I would choose the less hard-core F-15C when facing the MiG ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
159th_Viper Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 However, since I would like to survive, I would choose the less hard-core F-15C when facing the MiG ;) And I'll choose to be in the Soft-Core Tor-M1 system hiding behind the crest of the Hill Ripping the F-15 a whole new one............:P :D Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Well, good luck. If the rivet-joint doesn't know you're there already I guess we're in poor shape except ... the real bird flies between 25000 and 35000 all the time, so I guess your Tor will be sitting there staring at the eagles fly over, impotently? ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
The_GOZR Posted January 10, 2008 Author Posted January 10, 2008 :) Well i think the Su33 have one good advantage over the MiG29-A for example but Ice explain your point of view.. ( I like it too )
SoaringEagle74 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Well, good luck. If the rivet-joint doesn't know you're there already I guess we're in poor shape except ... the real bird flies between 25000 and 35000 all the time, so I guess your Tor will be sitting there staring at the eagles fly over, impotently? ;) GGTharos, You keep missing the point mate. You shouldn't expect to win a war just by dropping bombs from 25000ft! You and others can carpet bomb like sissies all you want but in my book thats not called CAS. You actually have to get 'low and dirty' sometimes to finish the job...do you know what I mean?;)
S77th-konkussion Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Well I fly the 33 and the 25t pretty much exclusively (online). It's a helluva lot more work for an A2A kill in the 33, plus when I'm flying that bird- I don't do runways. The T-frog is MUCH harder to fly & fight an entire mission with in LOMAC than the A10. No comparison. The A10 is like an angel of death. You can lay waste to damn near everything in one volley, then you can do a Split S to a perfect landing. The A10 simple damage model will take a POUNDING and stay in the air- the T frog seems fragile by comparison. I'm virtually guaranteed to explode when I hear those flames crackling out back- the A10 engine fires almost always go out. My guess is that the planes are a little more comparable as far as damage tolerance is concerned IRL This does not mean the A10 is not "hardcore" in the spirit of the thread. Anytime you are fighting toe to toe like that- it's pretty intense. Hardcore LOMAC and hardcore IRL ain't necessarily the same thing.. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
SoaringEagle74 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I think the su-25a is the best 'all-around' a2g plane, at least in this game. The su-25t and a-10a are better suited for armor attacks but also do reasonably well in other a2g departments. It all depends on what your primary objectives are. I think a lot of people get turned off because of the simple hud design. They are overly used to being fed all relative info within the hud. It goes against what they know so obviously the su-25a would get labeled as a "ww2 plane"...absolute bs!
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 No, I don't know what you mean. I'm not interested in carpet-bombing anything. I'm interested in blowing things out of the sky. ;) I suppose you missed the conversation that lead up to my post. ;) GGTharos, You keep missing the point mate. You shouldn't expect to win a war just by dropping bombs from 25000ft! You and others can carpet bomb like sissies all you want but in my book thats not called CAS. You actually have to get 'low and dirty' sometimes to finish the job...do you know what I mean?;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 It -is- a ww2 plane with jets onboard. The Su-25T is completely superior in a strike mission to the Su-25, as well as the anti-armor mission. Saying that the Su-25A is a better all around plane is like saying a shotgun is better than a rifle for sniping. I think the su-25a is the best 'all-around' a2g plane, at least in this game. The su-25t and a-10a are better suited for armor attacks but also do reasonably well in other a2g departments. It all depends on what your primary objectives are. I think a lot of people get turned off because of the simple hud design. They are overly used to being fed all relative info within the hud. It goes against what they know so obviously the su-25a would get labeled as a "ww2 plane"...absolute bs! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvETito Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Saying that the Su-25A is a better all around plane is like saying a shotgun is better than a rifle for sniping. It depends ;) Which one you gonna use in a street fight? "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 The shotgun, and I won't be sniping ... Which one are you gonna use for sniping? ;) You can use the sniper rifle for both. The shotgun might be better than the rifle in street fights, but you can't use it to snipe - well, not in the traditional, long range sense. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SoaringEagle74 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 The su-25t has more smart weapon capabilities and is better suitable for armor attacks but other than that I can't agree that it is better than the su-25a. From a manueverability perspective, the su-25a and a-10a are much preferrable. Try doing split-s and immelman with su-25t. I am not saying its impossible... I am saying its much tougher. Period!
GGTharos Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 The Su-25T is a far better strike platform. I don't really care how much better one maneuvers than the other. There is a form of ground attack that is not really respresented in online missions usually that the 25T is -far- better at. Further, in the game bombs have 0 CEP which makes your 25A far FAR more accurate than the real thing. ;) not to mention the targeting system having 0 CEP. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
SoaringEagle74 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 The Su-25T is a far better strike platform. I don't really care how much better one maneuvers than the other. There is a form of ground attack that is not really respresented in online missions usually that the 25T is -far- better at. Further, in the game bombs have 0 CEP which makes your 25A far FAR more accurate than the real thing. ;) not to mention the targeting system having 0 CEP. What is CEP? Circular error probability. Sorry, I am not good with acronyms. I agree its not a precision plane as such but with practice 'targeting system having 0 CEP' becomes not such a big issue unless dropping from very high altitude(which I assume is your 'cup of tea') and it happens to be very windy and/or the visibility is poor.
GGTharos Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 The CEP isn't a problem when you're kamikazeing in, this is true :D That's just it SoaringEagle, even low altitude strike can be done better by a better aircraft (n/a LOMAC, really ... ). It doesn't NEED to get closer, so it doesn't HAVE to take all those SHORAD defenses in the face, and it is more likely to come back and then do more work. And my cup of tea is blowing things out of the sky. I can do A2G in any manner requested, but I'm not terribly interested in the death star canyon run personally ;) You may think the 25A is good all around, but I do believe you are ignoring the fact that aircraft have gained more precice munitions and longer ranged munitions for a good reason ... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvETito Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 Pretty much yeah. I don't mean of course that the 25 is any better, the 25T is absolutely capable of anything the 25 does multiplied several times. The point is that it's much harder (read hardcore) to do precision strike with the 25 than the 25T, that's what I lake about it- the hard way ;) "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
graywo1fg Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 you dont necessarily need to get low for CAS. In real life the B-1 and B-2 and even B-52 can do CAS at 189 billion feet. :P but you can get close of course with no prob. smaller platforms its fine. like the A-10 is built around a gun thats why it gets close. Voice of Jester AI Death From Above =DFA= Squadron Discord - https://discord.gg/deathfromabove http://www.twitch.tv/graywo1f https://www.youtube.com/user/Lonewo1fg
GGTharos Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 Also consider that no one wants to lose a B-1B to some guy with a stinger. This is a factor. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvEYoda Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 45 nm ER maddog ....ballistic in face with no guidance/Radar/ecm/nuthin... thats hardcore ;) S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
RvEYoda Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 I've seen aim7s without guidance hit in lockon. The target was neither lockedor jamming, so it definitely IS possible ;) S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Yeniceri Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 I cant believe no ones' mentioned the Su33. That baby is hard core. Well i would call it "Mean!" not hardcore :) [sIGPIC]http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa200/misikci/41-imza-1.jpg[/sIGPIC] "To infinity...and beyond!.." SIM-MOD Modeler TURK!
Rhino104 Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 A-10. Su-25 cant take the damage the hog can ;) Surprised you didn't say the F-14 Viper....
bogusheadbox Posted January 11, 2008 Posted January 11, 2008 Its agreed then. The most hardcore plane and biggest underdog is the SU 25T Even GG Tharos said so, I would qoute him, but there are too many posts with him agreeing :music_whistling:
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