First post, a few questions to optimize new PC to run DCS

[doraymon]

I am an aeronautical engineer, planes have always been my passion although I work in a different sector now.

 

I just ordered a custom built PC only to run DCS and go back to flight sim after probably 10+ years (you know... wife, kids, etc...).

 

The PC is built around an Intel Core i5-9600KF, an Asus B360 motherboard, 16GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 3200MHz RAM and an Asus Dual RTX 2070 Super graphics card.

 

On the storage side I will have two SSDs: a Samsung 970 EVO M.2 250GB and a 256 GB Samsung 850 PRO coming from a relatively older computer.

 

Questions:

1) What is the best solution to install Windows 10 pro and DCS? Both on the fastest drive (970 EVO), Windows on the fastest drive and DCS on the other one, the other way around?

 

2) How much space do I have to consider for the modules and world maps and do they have to be installed in the same drive as DCS?

 

Any suggestions on how to optimize the PC is very welcome!

 

Cheers!:thumbup:

[draconus]

1. I'd keep them separate. DCS on faster drive - you want loading times as short as possible and there's not much to load from Windows during a game apart from page file and some drivers.

 

2. Bare DCS is around 60GB. Count about 30GB for a map and a few GBs for a module - that will give you an idea. All of this has to be in the DCS folder but you can make symbolic links as a workaround.

 

First tip is to make big swap file like 30GB.

[AstonMartinDBS]

On the storage side I will have two SSDs: a Samsung 970 EVO M.2 250GB and a 256 GB Samsung 850 PRO coming from a relatively older computer.

 

Questions:

1) What is the best solution to install Windows 10 pro and DCS? Both on the fastest drive (970 EVO), Windows on the fastest drive and DCS on the other one, the other way around?

I think it depends on your purposes and priorities, on which SSD you'll install your system/applications and DCS. My system and applications are installed on the 850 EVO SATA and DCS on the faster M.2 970 EVO.

 

2) How much space do I have to consider for the modules and world maps and do they have to be installed in the same drive as DCS?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=271718

The modules and maps are installed in the same drive & path as DCS per default.

 

Welcome to DCS btw! :)

Edited May 5, 2020 by AstonMartinDBS

[Eldur]

Put DCS to the fast m.2 drive, Windows is OK on an ordinary SATA3 SSD that does the usual 500-550MB/s and some 80k IOPS.

 

My DCS openbeta with all modules and about half of the campaigns currently weighs 191GB, be prepared for more.

 

And, if you can, up to 32GB if you can afford - it's well worth it. Does run without a pagefile then, but it might get tight in MP, in that case you just could reenable the pagefile, 16GB should be more than enough. Haven't had a crash in SP though unless I kept my browser open after having lots of tabs reloaded.

 

You should also consider getting a VR HMD - best bang for the buck probably is the Rift S. It's such a "sim changer" (since it's not a game).

[doraymon]

1. I'd keep them separate. DCS on faster drive - you want loading times as short as possible and there's not much to load from Windows during a game apart from page file and some drivers.

 

2. Bare DCS is around 60GB. Count about 30GB for a map and a few GBs for a module - that will give you an idea. All of this has to be in the DCS folder but you can make symbolic links as a workaround.

 

First tip is to make big swap file like 30GB.

 

Thanks, noted on the big swap file, will do.

[doraymon]

I think it depends on your purposes and priorities, on which SSD you'll install your system/applications and DCS. My system and applications are installed on the 850 EVO SATA and DCS on the faster M.2 970 EVO.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=271718

The modules and maps are installed in the same drive & path as DCS per default.

 

Welcome to DCS btw! :)

 

Thanks for the welcome and tips.

 

I ended up adding an extra SSD, so I will have:

1) 970 EVO PLUS 250GB - Windows 10

2) 970 EVO PLUS 500GB - DCS & related

3) 850 PRO SATA III SSD 256GB - all the rest

 

Thanks for inducing to spend more money...:D:doh:

[doraymon]

Put DCS to the fast m.2 drive, Windows is OK on an ordinary SATA3 SSD that does the usual 500-550MB/s and some 80k IOPS.

 

My DCS openbeta with all modules and about half of the campaigns currently weighs 191GB, be prepared for more.

 

And, if you can, up to 32GB if you can afford - it's well worth it. Does run without a pagefile then, but it might get tight in MP, in that case you just could reenable the pagefile, 16GB should be more than enough. Haven't had a crash in SP though unless I kept my browser open after having lots of tabs reloaded.

 

You should also consider getting a VR HMD - best bang for the buck probably is the Rift S. It's such a "sim changer" (since it's not a game).

 

I will stay with 16GB at the moment but yes, I am definitely considering a VR set.

I am looking at the HP Reverb. I know it's more expensive but the higher definition is too attractive.

It should also come down in price with the announcement of the upcoming Reverb G2 in collaboration with Valve and Microsoft...

[dawgie79]

As few as possible startup apps running, as well as apps that run in the background (on the taskbar next to the clock, all those icons from apps, remove them and do it so they won't automatically start anymore when booting Windows). Turn off as many services as you can (in Explorer right-click This PC, choose Manage, then in the Computer Management window, select Services & Applications, there you can switch services on and off), some will use much of your systems resources. Disable indexing, at least for the DCS drive.

[doraymon]

As few as possible startup apps running, as well as apps that run in the background (on the taskbar next to the clock, all those icons from apps, remove them and do it so they won't automatically start anymore when booting Windows). Turn off as many services as you can (in Explorer right-click This PC, choose Manage, then in the Computer Management window, select Services & Applications, there you can switch services on and off), some will use much of your systems resources. Disable indexing, at least for the DCS drive.

Yes that's a good point thanks.

I might use one of those cleaning apps, lice Clean My Mac but for PC (clearly it's a long time I don't use a PC...)

[flankerjun]

A 512g or above SSD is better,when you have maps it needs lots of space.I have a 1T SSD.

 

通过我的 V1955A 上的 Tapatalk发言

[Hog_No32]

No real tips here but a welcome back to this lovely world! :thumbup:

[reece146]

So many drives - sounds like a PITA. Why not just one big drive? SSDs are cheap.

 

 

 

M.2 is mostly pointless so don't need to spend the money on that. You can balance want/need to your own taste. :)

[Eldur]

I will stay with 16GB at the moment but yes, I am definitely considering a VR set.

I am looking at the HP Reverb. I know it's more expensive but the higher definition is too attractive.

It should also come down in price with the announcement of the upcoming Reverb G2 in collaboration with Valve and Microsoft...

 

Well, you'll always have the option to upgrade the RAM later, so this is no big deal.

 

HP Reverb seems to be the big deal for sims with that 2160px vres. Although I've picked up that it has some driver issues every now and then which needs a reboot to fix and the hand controller tracking could be better which is due to the only 2 sensors on the HMD's front mainly. Bear in mind that it is also the biggest ressource hog and DCS, especially 2.5.6 OB doesn't run as well in VR as other sims or VR games do. If you just get the thing for flying/driving, the Reverb probably is a decent choice anyway. If you want to play some other VR games like HL:A, Boneworks, Asgard's Wrath etc, the Rift probably would be the better overall package, only the audio being worse (which I never get since the CV1's is brilliant, never had any headphones of that quality before, but I'm a 5.1 guy anyway and even keep using that for simming, so awesome in DCS to have the cockpit/engine/wind sounds come from the surround speakers while the comms and warnings are being played through the headphones.

[Demon_]

So many drives - sounds like a PITA. Why not just one big drive? SSDs are cheap.

 

M.2 is mostly pointless so don't need to spend the money on that. You can balance want/need to your own taste. :)

Yes.

With 32GB of RAM. Or a bigger GPU. And maybe.... A PSU?

 

I just ordered a custom built PC only to run DCS and go back to flight sim after probably 10+ years (you know... wife, kids, etc...).

Are you sure that you need 1 TB of space?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Demon_

[doraymon]

No real tips here but a welcome back to this lovely world! :thumbup:

 

Oh I can't wait!!! Thanks mate!

[doraymon]

So many drives - sounds like a PITA. Why not just one big drive? SSDs are cheap.

M.2 is mostly pointless so don't need to spend the money on that. You can balance want/need to your own taste. :)

 

I'm confused now, I thought M.2, which is like 4 times faster than a SATA SSD was a plus with DCS?

[doraymon]

Well, you'll always have the option to upgrade the RAM later, so this is no big deal.

 

HP Reverb seems to be the big deal for sims with that 2160px vres. Although I've picked up that it has some driver issues every now and then which needs a reboot to fix and the hand controller tracking could be better which is due to the only 2 sensors on the HMD's front mainly. Bear in mind that it is also the biggest ressource hog and DCS, especially 2.5.6 OB doesn't run as well in VR as other sims or VR games do. If you just get the thing for flying/driving, the Reverb probably is a decent choice anyway. If you want to play some other VR games like HL:A, Boneworks, Asgard's Wrath etc, the Rift probably would be the better overall package, only the audio being worse (which I never get since the CV1's is brilliant, never had any headphones of that quality before, but I'm a 5.1 guy anyway and even keep using that for simming, so awesome in DCS to have the cockpit/engine/wind sounds come from the surround speakers while the comms and warnings are being played through the headphones.

 

So, I eventually opted for 32GB DDR4 (2x16GB HyperX Fury 3000MHz, CL15). The upgrade costed me 75$, I just thought I don't want regrets.

 

Thanks for the comments on the VR set and the sound, very interesting. I think I will opt for headphones anyway as my room is almost a perfect cube, with disastrous consequence on resonance and reverb...

Edited May 6, 2020 by doraymon

[doraymon]

Yes.

With 32GB of RAM. Or a bigger GPU. And maybe.... A PSU?

 

 

Are you sure that you need 1 TB of space?

 

I didn't really get the meaning of your post.

Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker, I might be missing something.

 

Anyhow yes, i ordered a PSU as well :) and no, I am not sure I need 1T.

If I start from the assumption that the best solution is to run DCS and OS on a different drive, and that DCS needs 500GB to be on the safe side, there you have one SSD 250GB with OS and another one 500GB for DCS.

 

the third one (SATA SSD) it's just free as I salvaged it from a MacMini which died a few weeks ago.

[Burt]

I bought a new machine just for DCS. I have everything running on a single M.2 NVMe 2TB and I must say It runs like a champ. First load time is about 15 secs... and then from there to reload whatever/fly again is about 3 seconds. I high recommend M.2 drive.... I have a new SSD Samsung 860 EVO 1 TB ready for the future but right now with only DCS and Windows I don't have the need for it at this time. But I'm new and I really honestly don't know whats good or bad yet.

 

Welcome to DCS .... it's amazing !

 

Oh I would recommend 850 on the PSU..... don't forget about the power that feeds that beast.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Burt
oops

[doraymon]

I bought a new machine just for DCS. I have everything running on a single M.2 NVMe 2TB and I must say It runs like a champ. First load time is about 15 secs... and then from there to reload whatever/fly again is about 3 seconds. I high recommend M.2 drive.... I have a new SSD Samsung 860 EVO 1 TB ready for the future but right now with only DCS and Windows I don't have the need for it at this time. But I'm new and I really honestly don't know whats good or bad yet.

 

Welcome to DCS .... it's amazing !

 

Oh I would recommend 850 on the PSU..... don't forget about the power that feeds that beast.

 

Wow that's a beast of a PC... Overkill in all departments!!

But you did fall short on the joystick department...:joystick:

[doraymon]

At the moment the only thing I received is the Joystick, throttle control and rudder control.

And I've been doing some tests with the sitting position.

 

The pedals fit perfectly between the two IKEA drawer units where the wheels have been replaced by fixed feet for obvious reasons.

The height of the stick and throttle felt perfect but I will need to try for longer time and during real action...

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by doraymon
ooops

[Burt]

Wow that's a beast of a PC... Overkill in all departments!!

But you did fall short on the joystick department...:joystick:

 

Well, it was an investment not a buy. Actually I ordered the Thrustmaster Warthog on March 10, 2020, and I'm still waiting for it to be delivered... very frustrating. But my old Microsoft Force Feed Back 2 stick is still to this day performing very well. It was a great stick back in the days. But yeah I feel that when ED comes out with the H64 Longbow and whatever develops in the near future with VR I'm good to go. :thumbup:

[Burt]

At the moment the only thing I received is the Joystick, throttle control and rudder control.

And I've been doing some tests with the sitting position.

 

The pedals fit perfectly between the two IKEA drawer units where the wheels have been replaced by fixed feet for obvious reasons.

The height of the stick and throttle felt perfect but I will need to try for longer time and during real action...

 

[ATTACH]235039[/ATTACH]

 

 

Awesome !!!!:thumbup:

[reece146]

I'm confused now, I thought M.2, which is like 4 times faster than a SATA SSD was a plus with DCS?

 

The issue is that the difference in performance is mostly imperceptible to us humans AND getting the data off the drive is one thing - having the app actually do something with it in a timely manner is another thing. Just because it is fast doesn't translate to something meaningful when sitting in front of the terminal.

 

 

There's a place for M.2. I use them for database filesystems (was SSD) to keep them from bogging under load - although I think even that is more of a use case looking for an application thing if you follow my meaning.

 

I had M.2 drives in about half the machines in my lab (Linux). Due to size/budget/projects some of them grew and the M.2's were replaced with larger SSDs. No really perceptible differences from a "seat of the pants" view but no benchmarking was done.

 

Maybe some of these huge image datasets I am working on for ML training will be useful to be on M.2 - we'll see.

 

For the convenience factor I'd just do SSD and be done with it. Sure you can benchmark these things and "prove" one is faster than the other but is it worth it to reduce load times from 2.2s to say 1.95 s? For me, the convenience would say no.

 

Sure, when loading a mission on my SSD system (old, decrepit, overclocked i7-3770 system w/ 2070 Super) the loading screens take a few dozen seconds sometimes but that's really not much of a burden while getting 'comfy' with the controls. In flight I never notice anything attributable to disk seek/load times.

 

Now, if in the future you are finding performance on your swap file sucks because you didn't buy enough ram, you could add a small M.2 just for the page file. Or just install 64GB-128GB and turn off the pagefile and be done with it. :)

 

If you are just getting into this I'd suggest taking the more practical approach and see if this app "takes" for you. After a few months you might be bored with DCS and have a massively weird, over built machine OR you may be hard core and looking for even more upgrades.

 

 

Alternatively, forget all the above - buy a single 1TB M.2 and move on. :)

 

 

 

$0.02

Edited May 6, 2020 by reece146

[doraymon]

First post, a few questions to optimize new PC to run DCS

 

The issue is that the difference in performance is mostly imperceptible to us humans AND getting the data off the drive is one thing - having the app actually do something with it in a timely manner is another thing. Just because it is fast doesn't translate to something meaningful when sitting in front of the terminal.

 

 

There's a place for M.2. I use them for database filesystems (was SSD) to keep them from bogging under load - although I think even that is more of a use case looking for an application thing if you follow my meaning.

 

I had M.2 drives in about half the machines in my lab (Linux). Due to size/budget/projects some of them grew and the M.2's were replaced with larger SSDs. No really perceptible differences from a "seat of the pants" view but no benchmarking was done.

 

Maybe some of these huge image datasets I am working on for ML training will be useful to be on M.2 - we'll see.

 

For the convenience factor I'd just do SSD and be done with it. Sure you can benchmark these things and "prove" one is faster than the other but is it worth it to reduce load times from 2.2s to say 1.95 s? For me, the convenience would say no.

 

Sure, when loading a mission on my SSD system (old, decrepit, overclocked i7-3770 system w/ 2070 Super) the loading screens take a few dozen seconds sometimes but that's really not much of a burden while getting 'comfy' with the controls. In flight I never notice anything attributable to disk seek/load times.

 

Now, if in the future you are finding performance on your swap file sucks because you didn't buy enough ram, you could add a small M.2 just for the page file. Or just install 64GB-128GB and turn off the pagefile and be done with it. :)

 

If you are just getting into this I'd suggest taking the more practical approach and see if this app "takes" for you. After a few months you might be bored with DCS and have a massively weird, over built machine OR you may be hard core and looking for even more upgrades.

 

 

Alternatively, forget all the above - buy a single 1TB M.2 and move on. :)

 

 

 

$0.02

 

 

Crystal clear now and I love the logic behind your post, it makes perfect sense.

I always thought that real world usage is the only benchmark that counts.

 

It’s clear that I miss direct experience with this software and how it uses the hardware resources, which is why I joined this forum.

 

 

I already exceeded the budget I had put for this so, as you also suggest, I will stay with my 32GB RAM and the two drives I already ordered.

I’ll give DCS a good crack then see if I need more.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain!

Edited May 6, 2020 by doraymon