Rudders - am I missing something?

[Raisuli]

This is the bottom line from a real pilot. If you aren't doing this too you're doing it wrong.

 

 

The planes GB flew were fake, these are real. Or something like that.

[norman99]

I guess that little ball thing is just decoration then, huh? @@ Whatever

 

Quite the opposite.

 

In normal flight you always strive to maintain a balanced state, and the ball is the primary means of indicating this. My point was that depending on the FBW control laws implemented, this may be done for you automatically, and therefore no rudder input is required by the pilot. For instance, this is definitely the case for the 777, and I believe so in the Hornet too.

 

This is not to say that manual rudder input does not have its place, and as mentioned above, can be perfect for making small corrections when lining up during AAR or on a bomb run.

 

My last point about using rudder to counteract wind away from the ground remains. This is simply never ever done in any aircraft, FBW or conventional. I actually don’t believe this is how you are flying, and may have this concept confused slightly.

[Motomouse]

Those with TPR pedals. I am not confident in the brake mechanics. What is your experience with the toe brakes especially?

 

Thank you for your feedback.

[Tchalla]

Rudder comes it to play when dog-fighting, at low speed and high alpha. get into a descending slow turn flight with a M2000 and you will see which surface you use more (ailerons vs Rudder). I have even used Asymmetrical thrust at times but when that happens I'm usually in a bad place just waiting for the spin eventually. Flight control computers handle just fine in most scenarios but instantaneous flight control movements it struggles to keep up with a coordinated turns and maneuvers. Unfortunately we cant experience movement at our chairs but it does exist. Watch NO-PRO's Kneecap/feet in the break (0:25).....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz7dluAFXb0&t=44s

[G B]

Rudder comes it to play when dog-fighting' date=' at low speed and high alpha. get into a descending slow turn flight with a M2000 and you will see which surface you use more (ailerons vs Rudder). I have even used Asymmetrical thrust at times but when that happens I'm usually in a bad place just waiting for the spin eventually. Flight control computers handle just fine in most scenarios but instantaneous flight control movements it struggles to keep up with a coordinated turns and maneuvers. Unfortunately we cant experience movement at our chairs but it does exist. Watch NO-PRO's Kneecap/feet in the break (0:25).....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz7dluAFXb0&t=44s[/quote']

 

It does not struggle with that. NoPro was not using the rudders in the break. Nobody does that.

[Razor18]

You might be rigth tough about low speed high alpha, but break turn is not low speed and high alpha, referring to your video example. If that kneecap movement forward you say would mean the pilot is giving that big left pedal with 80 degree bank and high speed into the break, he would pretty soon end up in the water. Try it in DCS. If he would do anything with pedal in an 80 degrees turn would be to keep the nose from falling at best, meaning rather slight RIGHT rudder in a left break turn, and not big LEFT rudder.

 

And if you watch video all the way through into the groove, you can see the kneecap around 0:55 NOT coming back when leveling off.

 

Shoot, I just got sniped, G B :thumbup:

Edited May 9, 2020 by Razor18

[Snake122]

Those with TPR pedals. I am not confident in the brake mechanics. What is your experience with the toe brakes especially?

 

Thank you for your feedback.

 

You are not confident in your own brake mechanics or the TPRs somehow?

 

That is another thing I like about heels on the floor pedals, I feel like you can brake better (but I also have a decent number of hours experience with this style). I also like that you can adjust the brake pedal angles on the TPR and I set them to the most vertical possible. Again, the TPR brakes are an improvement from the decent Saitek Combat pedals I had before, but not proportional to the cost.

[Tchalla]

Right more pronounced at higher speed. A majority of the movement is induced G's and G-suit inflation. Pro-Verse yaw might be a thing with the hornet but I've never done a SHB.

[Mars Exulte]

Quite the opposite.

 

In normal flight you always strive to maintain a balanced state, and the ball is the primary means of indicating this. My point was that depending on the FBW control laws implemented, this may be done for you automatically, and therefore no rudder input is required by the pilot. For instance, this is definitely the case for the 777, and I believe so in the Hornet too.

 

This is not to say that manual rudder input does not have its place, and as mentioned above, can be perfect for making small corrections when lining up during AAR or on a bomb run.

 

My last point about using rudder to counteract wind away from the ground remains. This is simply never ever done in any aircraft, FBW or conventional. I actually don’t believe this is how you are flying, and may have this concept confused slightly.

 

 

Regarding FBW, I agree, of course, that's the whole point of that stuff, the computer does a lot of mundane footwork for you. Regarding the last, yeah, probably crossed words. Obviously, you can't really do much about a crosswind in the air, and you've gotta fly the direction you're going whether or not the wind is crossing you. Attempting to fight it will indeed induce massive drag and undesirable results. I do sometimes make minor corrections if it's just off center and easy to do, though, but of course, by virtue of being "just off center" it's also largely irrelevant either way, so says more about me being OCD than anything about aircraft @@

[Motomouse]

Thanks snake for your answer. I am especially interested how well the pedals rotate while braking and how you like the feel. Thanks again.

[Raisuli]

It does not struggle with that. NoPro was not using the rudders in the break. Nobody does that.

 

 

ACM and taxi. Otherwise feet off the pedals. Aye!

[Ourorborus]

Regarding FBW, I agree, of course, that's the whole point of that stuff, the computer does a lot of mundane footwork for you. Regarding the last, yeah, probably crossed words. Obviously, you can't really do much about a crosswind in the air, and you've gotta fly the direction you're going whether or not the wind is crossing you. Attempting to fight it will indeed induce massive drag and undesirable results. I do sometimes make minor corrections if it's just off center and easy to do, though, but of course, by virtue of being "just off center" it's also largely irrelevant either way, so says more about me being OCD than anything about aircraft @@

 

Allowing for crosswind in the cruise is what the old wiz wheel is for :). Put simply fly straight and level in balance but maintain a heading that compensates for the cross wind, such that your track made good is the direction you want to go.

 

Modern FMS can do this calculation for you, and that is why ATC will expect you to account for wind if cleared to "track" a direction. If vectored (i.e. fly heading) you are not expected to adjust for wind but fly the exact heading issued, ATC will correct for wind during vectors.

[Motomouse]

To answer my question myself. The TPR toe brakes operate smooth, feel is ok.

[BEHill75]

In flight, I only use them to wiggle the gun a bit to saturate a target area. Other than that, shouldn't need them that often, especially with fly-by-wire jets.