Virpil CM2 vs. Warthog Throttle (only)

[msmith301]

Which would you choose and why?

Looking to upgrade from my TQS throttle with the Cougar system.

Purchased the Virpil Warbrd joystick base that I can put my Cougar F16 style control stick on.

Since the radar cursor on the TQS is not able to bind to any of the DCS controls (without some work I might add) I am looking for a throttle base that has more control features than just what's on the throttle but not sure which one to use.

Any tips?

[zcaa0g]

There is no one better than the other, but I stuck with the Warthog due to the quickly swappable detentes that are sold on Shapeways and better "clicky" button responses. With that said, the DeltaSim Electronics analog slew control is a must for the Warthog throttle IMO. My ideal throttle would be a be a combination of the two throttles. Can't really go wrong with either though. I just didn't like using software based detentes on the Virpil.

[Aviators]

Warthog Throttle with deltasim

[streakeagle]

My only big complaint about the Warthog throttle is the possibility that the main green board can fail whenever the usb cable is removed/plugged in. Mine only failed after many years of use but others have not been so lucky. TM will sell you the board if you are out of warranty. But they were out of stock when my board failed. So, I would have to wait a few months. I chose to get a second Warthog HOTAS set as the throttle by itself cost almost as much as the complete set at that time. I eventually ordered the board, so now I have two completely operational Warthog HOTAS sets and both have the deltasim mod as well.

[msmith301]

Warthog Throttle with deltasim

 

What is the Deltasim mod?

Never heard of that.

[zcaa0g]

What is the Deltasim mod?

Never heard of that.

 

 

It replaces the slew control that is like the Playstation Portable analog nub i.e. terrible with this:

 

https://deltasimelectronics.com/

 

 

It's a must IMO.

[Sokol1_br]

Since the radar cursor on the TQS is not able to bind to any of the DCS controls (without some work I might add)...

 

That's curious, since (Cougar) TQS "radar cursor" is just an analog mini-stick, like the one in VirPil CM2 throttle and Warthog DeltaSim upgrade for Warthog throttle.

[msmith301]

That's curious, since (Cougar) TQS "radar cursor" is just an analog mini-stick, like the one in VirPil CM2 throttle and Warthog DeltaSim upgrade for Warthog throttle.

 

As was explained to me in a previous post https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=275374the radar cursor is treated the same as a joystick axis. Actually as shown in the chart on the 3rd and 4th post it called microstick X and microstick Y. The problem is it falls under TM axis 9 & 10 and windows Direct X only recognizes 8 axis. So windows doesn't even recognize them.

My only alternative that I can do from just now rereading the post is to move the toe brakes into the 9 & 10 axis and move my microstick X & Y into their slots.

The older Elite Rudder pedals don't have toe brakes so I would have to use the keyboard for that anyway.

[Supmua]

As was explained to me in a previous post https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=275374the radar cursor is treated the same as a joystick axis. Actually as shown in the chart on the 3rd and 4th post it called microstick X and microstick Y. The problem is it falls under TM axis 9 & 10 and windows Direct X only recognizes 8 axis. So windows doesn't even recognize them.

My only alternative that I can do from just now rereading the post is to move the toe brakes into the 9 & 10 axis and move my microstick X & Y into their slots.

The older Elite Rudder pedals don't have toe brakes so I would have to use the keyboard for that anyway.

 

Or you can just use something else to control your TM devices. Joystick Gremlin, for example, allows simultaneous use of virtual devices (multiple even), as well as real input devices. My current set up has 20 axis inputs (more if I count 2nd or 3rd joystick), no problem at all.

 

Second option is just using 2 TM devices with Target, and don't add in the rest so Target doesn't limit your axis control on all devices.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Supmua

[msmith301]

Or you can just use something else to control your TM devices. Joystick Gremlin, for example, allows simultaneous use of virtual devices (multiple even), as well as real input devices. My current set up has 20 axis inputs (more if I count 2nd or 3rd joystick), no problem at all.

 

Second option is just using 2 TM devices with Target, and don't add in the rest so Target doesn't limit your axis control on all devices.

The problem with that is because the throttle and the rudder system are both run through the Joystick base TARGET sees it as one controller. Because of this Window Direct X only allows the 8 axis. If I purchased the Real Simulator TUSBA adapter it would recognize it as a separate controller with it's own axis. I THINK??

https://realsimulator.com/tusba/

 

Another option is mounting a secondary game pad with mini thumb joystick behind my throttle base.

I planned to put something that I can bind static controls to like landing gear, tank jettison, caution resets, etc...without having to do combination keystrokes on the computer like Shift+Alt+Enter. Stupid stuff like that. Always a pain. This way I can reach down behind my throttle control just like the side control panels on the plane and hit whatever button I need.

I'm currently looking at the Razar Tartarus V2 with the small thumb stick joystick controller.

https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Tartarus-Progammable-Detachable-Mecha-Membrane/dp/B07754PYFK/ref=psdc_402051011_t1_B07NBJVH4G

[Supmua]

You don’t really need to run everything through Target. The rudder, for example, just take it out of Target. There is no need to do any complex programming on the rudder. Even the joystick, unless you need complex macros just simply bind via DCS setting is more than enough.

[msmith301]

You don’t really need to run everything through Target. The rudder, for example, just take it out of Target. There is no need to do any complex programming on the rudder. Even the joystick, unless you need complex macros just simply bind via DCS setting is more than enough.

 

because the older TM Cougar HOTAS system has the throttle and rudder pedals run thru the base of the joystick control it reads as one controller with the throttle and rudder pedals being 2 of the 8 axis that Windows Direct X allows. You can't separate the throttle and/or rudder pedals without using a USB adapter and I don't know if the cheaper smaller adapters will allow TARGET to read the throttle and/or rudder separately. I was always under the impression that you needed either the

TUSBA https://realsimulator.com/tusba/

or the

RUSBA https://realsimulator.com/rusba/

in order to fully read the controllers as a separate USB controller.

If I order the TUSBA DCS will show it under controllers as a separate controller thereby giving in another 8 axis under Windows Direct X (I think. Haven't tried yet.)

 

One of the things I do want to try is to move the toe brakes to the 9 & 10 axis that Windows Direct X doesn't recognize and and use the toe brake axis for my mini joystick X & Y on the controller.

The older Elite rudder pedals do not have toe brakes.

Edited June 18, 2020 by msmith301

[Supmua]

You might also be able to get around this without paying for anything extra, by running Joystick Gremlin top of Target and creating your own virtual device via vjoy with all the axes you want (each virtual device can have 8 axes, so if you need 12 you can use 8 from Target's virtual and extra 4 from joystick gremlin).

 

I don't have the cougar setup so no idea if this would work this way though.

[Lange_666]

One of the things I do want to try is to move the toe brakes to the 9 & 10 axis that Windows Direct X doesn't recognize and and use the toe brake axis for my mini joystick X & Y on the controller.

The older Elite rudder pedals do not have toe brakes.

 

That's one option you can try (and it doesn't cost anything for starters), the other is to use a gameport to USB adapter and hook them up through USB, they are seen as a separate controller then (and show up in DCS as a separate controller). Or go the VJoy / Joystick Gremlin road.

 

 

Don't make it harder then it needs to be...;)

[msmith301]

That's one option you can try (and it doesn't cost anything for starters), the other is to use a gameport to USB adapter and hook them up through USB, they are seen as a separate controller then (and show up in DCS as a separate controller). Or go the VJoy / Joystick Gremlin road.

 

 

Don't make it harder then it needs to be...;)

I was told I could do this in the TARGET GUI but I don't see anywhere that it lets me do that.

[msmith301]

You don’t really need to run everything through Target. The rudder, for example, just take it out of Target. There is no need to do any complex programming on the rudder. Even the joystick, unless you need complex macros just simply bind via DCS setting is more than enough.

How do I take something out of the TARGET for the cougar HOTAS when it's showing it as one functional controller because it is not all USB based.

[Lange_666]

I guess you can't (can't test because i don't have your setup or a combined one through a gameport). But you can through the Cougar Control Panel (CCP) within the Cougar's own Foxy software. Since your rudders don't have toebrakes, move both toebrake axis to position 9 and 10.

 

 

PS: When this wrestle is over, you'll be tired as hell...:D

[Supmua]

How do I take something out of the TARGET for the cougar HOTAS when it's showing it as one functional controller because it is not all USB based.

 

 

Does the cougar setup show up as separate controller devices in joy.cpl without Target running? (does it even show up at all). If it doesn’t show up then you might have to go with Realsim’s adapter route for total control.

[Lange_666]

@Supmua: Don't make it more complex then it already is, one step at a time.

[Supmua]

Lol, sure. I’m tempted to buy a cougar setup and mess around with it, but I’m afraid it will be collecting dust once Realsim or Winwing introduces their own version of this. If I can find a decent price for a used one I might just go for it.

 

My basic understanding is that it is not a true DX input setup and requires Foxy software to be functional as a windows game controller unit. Would be interested to learn more about it, though.

[Habu_69]

Do you mean Warthog throttle or Cougar throttle? Cougar throttle plugs into Cougar stick base, unless the throttle is modified for USB by a TUSBA device. Foxy enhances the unmodified Cougar functionality, but is not required. Warthog throttle is natively an independent windows USB device and switches have device DX assignments. I have owned both a Warthog and unmodified Cougar throttle. Warthog has more switches and better handle function. IMO the Cougar thumbstick outclasses the native Warthog slew control.

[msmith301]

I guess you can't (can't test because i don't have your setup or a combined one through a gameport). But you can through the Cougar Control Panel (CCP) within the Cougar's own Foxy software. Since your rudders don't have toebrakes, move both toebrake axis to position 9 and 10.

 

 

PS: When this wrestle is over, you'll be tired as hell...:D

 

I ordered the VGA USB adapter to separate the throttle controller from the Joystick base so it will show up as a separate controller and maybe the microstick axis will show up in either DCS or TARGET GUI.

Won't be able to find out until I get back up to my out of town house where my setup is installed.

[msmith301]

Do you mean Warthog throttle or Cougar throttle? Cougar throttle plugs into Cougar stick base, unless the throttle is modified for USB by a TUSBA device. Foxy enhances the unmodified Cougar functionality, but is not required. Warthog throttle is natively an independent windows USB device and switches have device DX assignments. I have owned both a Warthog and unmodified Cougar throttle. Warthog has more switches and better handle function. IMO the Cougar thumbstick outclasses the native Warthog slew control.

I've always loved the realism design of the Cougar HOTAS throttle controller.

Modeled after the real F16 stick.