Mowaca Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 The Thunderbolt's wing guns are aligned parallel to the ground, and not with the leading edge of the wing. This is often missed on model kits and in artwork and paintings of the plane. This picture is fairly indicative of the feature on an M model (this feature remained unchanged throughout all production models of the P-47). You can see the inboard guns extrude from the wing clearly above the leading edge, while the outboard gun is aligned almost perfectly with the leading edge. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/20/76/5720763a2d793e756621b32df325b2c6.jpg On the DCS external model it appears that the gun barrels are modeled aligned with the leading edge, following the diheadral as shown here in a screen grab attempted to capture a similar angle. https://drive.google.com/file/d/18qAzPOvBMOutMz9m0flTqDcXXsbCFlPt/view?usp=sharing Not sure it matters to many folks, but loving the Thunderbolt as much as some of us do, this one sticks out to me.
Nealius Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 Do you have a straight-on picture of the guns? The angle combined with the 35mm exposure of sky vs. light color makes it tough to see how the guns are arranged, and the demarcation of the upper paint vs. lower paint also causes confusion as to where exactly the leading edge is.
Mowaca Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 Here's a picture from reputable blueprints. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LyzDRPDnfv2uBM8-JvYJ8N8PtHBcOtd2/view?usp=sharing However, I am not making this up. Republic Aviation simply built them this way. Il2 appears to have gotten this correct on their recent P-47D-28 external here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1md7kMUw3eB3j8XAcjuwHp1stiEbJ_Tt1/view?usp=sharing Not trying to do any harm here, or lead the team down a road that makes no sense. Simply go stand by a P-47 and see for your self :)
Mowaca Posted June 17, 2020 Author Posted June 17, 2020 https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3480/5847093065_fc54203ace_b.jpg https://farm66.static.flickr.com/65535/48175013456_9c1b752c8f.jpg
Nealius Posted June 24, 2020 Posted June 24, 2020 Now I see what you mean. I didn't fully get it until I got to the gun ports on my Tamiya 1/48 P-47D-25. Tamiya properly models the alignment.
Mowaca Posted June 24, 2020 Author Posted June 24, 2020 BTW that Tamiya kit is fantastic! If you ever get into 1/32 the Hasegawa Jug is equally beautifully engineered (they quote the Tamiya engineering liberally) and makes an impressive finished project.
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted June 25, 2020 ED Team Posted June 25, 2020 Hi all guns were adjustable and could be set in different configurations for convergence / harmonising. Modern maintained or reproduction P-47's tend to have them in the straight configuration as the picture shows. The team are discussing it. Thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Nealius Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 BTW that Tamiya kit is fantastic! If you ever get into 1/32 the Hasegawa Jug is equally beautifully engineered (they quote the Tamiya engineering liberally) and makes an impressive finished project. I hope I can do it justice. I'm stressing over the invasion stripes at the moment. I'll have to look at Hasegawa's 1/32, those come fairly cheap here in Japan and I've only got one 1/32 kit in my collection.
Mowaca Posted June 25, 2020 Author Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Hi all guns were adjustable and could be set in different configurations for convergence / harmonising. Modern maintained or reproduction P-47's tend to have them in the straight configuration as the picture shows. The team are discussing it. Thank you While restored birds are always questionable, the harmonization adjustments on wartime birds as described in the Rebublic EMI for the P-47 were for yaw and pitch of the gun within the mount exclusively. At least that's my interpretation of the manual's gun mounting section. From page 350: (5) All gun adjustments are made from the top of the gun bay with a screw driver inserted into the slots in the adjustment screws located on the rear mount. The elevational screw is just outboard of its respective gun, and the traverse screw just inboard of its gun. I cannot find instructions for adjusting the mounts themselves along any axis at all. However, the real issue with raising or lowering the guns vertically within the mount, or adjusting the mount itself to support discrete vertical axis movement of the entire gun would be the need to replace the leading edge fairings at the moment of mounting the guns in any new vertical alignment with an entirely new leading edge fairing featuring a new set of barrel holes exactly-matching the adjusted gun alignment. Republic only made one leading edge fairing part for each wing, so I think this would only be possible by manufacturing new, custom-made fairings in the field after any/every adjustment. That is, if it was even possible to do. And again, there is no reference to that type of adjustment in the EMI whatsoever. And in closing, I cannot find a wartime photo of the guns configured exactly along the diheadral as the DCS Thunderbolts guns are currently arranged. https://i.redd.it/g5fx5vhvyw911.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/474x/82/a9/ae/82a9ae5760ea680ad7a7247f56335fd8.jpg https://albumwar2.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/03610.jpg Thanks very much for considering this report. Edited June 25, 2020 by Mowaca
Ala13_ManOWar Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 However, the real issue with raising or lowering the guns vertically within the mount, or adjusting the mount itself to support discrete vertical axis movement of the entire gun would be the need to replace the leading edge fairings at the moment of mounting the guns in any new vertical alignment with an entirely new leading edge fairing featuring a new set of barrel holes exactly-matching the adjusted gun alignment.I believe you didn't pay attention to the pics you posted. No need to replace a thing, leading edge guns fairings are clearly movable. Look again :thumbup: . S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
probad Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 but the cutouts are even aligned parallel with the ground so obviously the intent is for guns to be aligned parallel as well, with leeway given for adjustments as needed for harmonization
Mowaca Posted June 25, 2020 Author Posted June 25, 2020 Indeed, the holes in the fairings are oversized, I would assume to allow for hamonization movement along the yaw and pitch axis. I would suggest the team get the EMI for the aircraft, and also find a real one to inspect to corroborate the claim. The objective truth is that the guns are not adjustable within the mounts (beyond harmonization movements as described), nor are the mounts themselves able to be adjusted descretely along the vertical axis. There are only two adjustable screws, traverse and elevation (yaw and pitch). I hope the team finds these reports useful.
Mowaca Posted June 25, 2020 Author Posted June 25, 2020 but the cutouts are even aligned parallel with the ground so obviously the intent is for guns to be aligned parallel as well, with leeway given for adjustments as needed for harmonization That is my exact interpretation as well.
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