Rockrend Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) I'm running DCS 2.5.6.52437 and have a question regarding the operation of the ground spoilers. In previous versions...with flaps up, the anti skid/spoiler brake switch set to either BOTH or SPOILER BK and the throttle at idle with WoW, the inboard spoilers would deploy and the outboard spoilers would remain down. I have been told this is the correct behaviour but as of now the ground spoilers will not deploy until the flaps have been lowered and then both the inboard and outboard ground spoilers deploy. Is this a bug or the correct behaviour? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Edited July 25, 2020 by Rockrend
Airhunter Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Indeed, this is how it should work. Havent noticed that it changed in any way, will take a look though. picture for reference:
Rockrend Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 Indeed, this is how it should work. Havent noticed that it changed in any way, will take a look though. picture for reference: Thanks very much, I’d appreciate it if you could check and let me know your findings.
Airhunter Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Confirmed, something broke in the logic. Now with AUX flaps up and or maneuvering flaps down with the switch in BOTH or SPOILER BRK ONLY no spoilers come up with idle power. Only with AUX flaps deployed you get the full spoiler deflection. Definitely not how it should be or how it was before.
Rockrend Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 Confirmed, something broke in the logic. Now with AUX flaps up and or maneuvering flaps down with the switch in BOTH or SPOILER BRK ONLY no spoilers come up with idle power. Only with AUX flaps deployed you get the full spoiler deflection. Definitely not how it should be or how it was before. Thanks very much for checking and confirming you are seeing the same. Can a Dev please note this in the bug tracker and fix when ready?
flybull Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 I noticed this described behaviour BEFORE the previous update.
Nealius Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 I can confirm that this issue existed prior. Sometime after the Super Carrier patch or the patch immediately after the Super Carrier, I recall getting all spoilers up instead of just the inboards.
Airhunter Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 What I'm seing is no spoilers come up with landing flaps retracted.
Rockrend Posted July 27, 2020 Author Posted July 27, 2020 What I'm seing is no spoilers come up with landing flaps retracted. Yes, that’s exactly what I’m seeing. I’m not sure when it was first introduced as I haven’t flown the F-14 for some time. Hopefully we will get acknowledgement by HB.
fat creason Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 One of our SMEs told me that there's a microswitch on the flap lever that locks out ground spoiler deployments if the flaps are not down. I think lateral stick will wash it out though. Reconfirming with our SMEs to double check. Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations
Airhunter Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) One of our SMEs told me that there's a microswitch on the flap lever that locks out ground spoiler deployments if the flaps are not down. I think lateral stick will wash it out though. Reconfirming with our SMEs to double check. I think he meant the outboard spoiler module and not the inboard ground spoilers. Just skimmed over the A and B manuals and couldn't find anything that states otherwise. This behaviour can also be seen on various pictures and videos online of Tomcats performing flaps UP or maneuverring flaps shore takeoffs. Edited July 27, 2020 by Airhunter
Golo Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 Yes its the micro switch for outboard spoiler. The inboard one should pop up when spoiler brake is in any position other than off, flaps up, wow and engines in idle. Interestingly if you have outboard spoilers up, and set flaps up it will (should) stay up because that micro switch will disconnect it from operation. - On deck, when the flap handle is cycled to UP, the outboard spoiler module is shut down. This will cause the outboard spoilers to remain extended if activated. If this occurs, position the flap handle to DN and deactivate the spoilers. This may also cause the spoiler indicators to inaccurately indicate a droop or down position. If this occurs, position the flap handle to DN and move the control stick laterally to correct spoiler indicators.
Spiceman Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 Yes its the micro switch for outboard spoiler. The inboard one should pop up when spoiler brake is in any position other than off, flaps up, wow and engines in idle. Interestingly if you have outboard spoilers up, and set flaps up it will (should) stay up because that micro switch will disconnect it from operation. - On deck, when the flap handle is cycled to UP, the outboard spoiler module is shut down. This will cause the outboard spoilers to remain extended if activated. If this occurs, position the flap handle to DN and deactivate the spoilers. This may also cause the spoiler indicators to inaccurately indicate a droop or down position. If this occurs, position the flap handle to DN and move the control stick laterally to correct spoiler indicators. Yeah, I was mistaken in the previous post. With the flap handle UP the outboard spoiler mod is shut down. Former USN Avionics Tech VF-41 86-90, 93-95 VF-101 90-93 Heatblur Tomcat SME I9-9900K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra | 32GB DDR4 3200 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe | RTX 2070 Super | TM Throttle | VPC Warbird Base TM F-18 Stick
P0G0 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 On the videos we can notice two additional things. First thing, we can see that the Tomcat moves on the taxiway in iddle since the spoilers are out so unlike the Tomcat of heatblur there is a residual thrust in iddle. Second thing, the Tomcat which performs engine tests before take off on the second video shows that the brakes are more efficient than that of Heatblur Tower : IN WIN D-Frame Red - Watercooling : EKWB (CM, CPU, CG) - Alim : Corsair RM1000x - CM : Asus Maximus XI Formula - CPU : Intel i9 9900K 5.1Ghz - CG : Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080Ti Strix OC 11Go - RAM : DDR4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 64Go 3000Mhz - Windows 10 64 - DD System : 1To (2 SSD PCIe M.2 NvMe Samsung 970 Pro 500Go RAID 0) - Hotas : Virpil V.F.X Grip, MongoosT 50CM2 Throttle - Rudder : Thrustmaster TPR - VR Headset : HP Reverb - Monitor : Asus ROG PG348Q - Keyboard, Mouse : Steelseries
Alphabet_Ghost Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 One of our SMEs told me that there's a microswitch on the flap lever that locks out ground spoiler deployments if the flaps are not down. I think lateral stick will wash it out though. Reconfirming with our SMEs to double check. Could we have that microswitch in keybinding?LoL. I7-4790K | RTX2070 | Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog | 24G DDR3 | 東芝 TOSHIBA HG5d M.2 256GB SSD | Q200 EX
Spiceman Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 On the videos we can notice two additional things. First thing, we can see that the Tomcat moves on the taxiway in iddle since the spoilers are out so unlike the Tomcat of heatblur there is a residual thrust in iddle. Second thing, the Tomcat which performs engine tests before take off on the second video shows that the brakes are more efficient than that of Heatblur I think that the ground has a stickiness property in DCS that HB has to deal with. I think a lot of the ground/friction properties are core sim properties. Not sure about the brakes. Former USN Avionics Tech VF-41 86-90, 93-95 VF-101 90-93 Heatblur Tomcat SME I9-9900K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra | 32GB DDR4 3200 | Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe | RTX 2070 Super | TM Throttle | VPC Warbird Base TM F-18 Stick
Airhunter Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 I think that the ground has a stickiness property in DCS that HB has to deal with. I think a lot of the ground/friction properties are core sim properties. Not sure about the brakes. Seems more like a workaround since FC3 modules, the Hornet and Viper don't really suffer from this.
P0G0 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 I just did the test for the brakes as in the video with the Tomcat from Heatblur and it's okay, it doesn't move. So only the spoilers in iddle and residual thrust can be seen Tower : IN WIN D-Frame Red - Watercooling : EKWB (CM, CPU, CG) - Alim : Corsair RM1000x - CM : Asus Maximus XI Formula - CPU : Intel i9 9900K 5.1Ghz - CG : Asus Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080Ti Strix OC 11Go - RAM : DDR4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 64Go 3000Mhz - Windows 10 64 - DD System : 1To (2 SSD PCIe M.2 NvMe Samsung 970 Pro 500Go RAID 0) - Hotas : Virpil V.F.X Grip, MongoosT 50CM2 Throttle - Rudder : Thrustmaster TPR - VR Headset : HP Reverb - Monitor : Asus ROG PG348Q - Keyboard, Mouse : Steelseries
Rockrend Posted November 4, 2020 Author Posted November 4, 2020 Just to follow up on this, does anyone know if HB acknowledged this bug?
Skysurfer Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 Is this going to be addressed soon? Seems like a simple logic fix for when the flaps are either up or in maneuver. It worked fine on release up until when it broke.
fat creason Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) Ground spoiler operation is currently correct for flaps full up/down, I think the bug is that inboards don't pop up with man flap deployments while on ground at idle. Edited November 21, 2020 by fat creason Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations
Skysurfer Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 Ground spoiler operation is currently correct for flaps full up/down, I think the bug is that inboards don't pop up with man flap deployments while on ground at idle. As stated by others before, with weight on wheels, idle power, wings full forward and maneuver flaps either up or manually "thumbed" forward, the inboards should deploy (as seen in the videos posted here). I am very sure it worked like that on release up until it broke.
fat creason Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) As stated by others before, with weight on wheels, idle power, wings full forward and maneuver flaps either up or manually "thumbed" forward, the inboards should deploy (as seen in the videos posted here). I am very sure it worked like that on release up until it broke. Any time the flaps are full up, no spoilers will deploy on the ground without lateral stick movement. There's a microswitch inside the flap lever assembly. This changes with full flaps or man flaps. Edited November 21, 2020 by fat creason Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations
Skysurfer Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 Any time the flaps are full up, no spoilers will deploy on the ground without lateral stick movement. There's a microswitch inside the flap level assembly. This changes with full flaps or man flaps. I guess the maneuver flaps are what we are talking about.
fat creason Posted November 21, 2020 Posted November 21, 2020 Yeah, that's the bug. Will be fixed in the next patch. 2 Systems Engineer & FM Modeler Heatblur Simulations
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