A-10A unarmored

[Teamasian]

Is the A-10 supposed to be really easy to bring down? Because after 10 experiments with AA vehicles, tanks, and BMPs, it seems like even a single 30 mm shell rips off a wing or tail every time.

[Andrew8604]

I agree. My A-10A was hit by a few rounds of 12.7mm from a BMP-1 (I think it was), at more than 3/4-mile range, off my 4 o'clock, at down around 180 kts, and it took out both engines!! Dead. No throttle response. One on fire. Really? Now, how can they get me with that hand-guided deflection shot? Yet, I try to shoot down MiG-15's with the 12.7mm (50-cal) MG on a Humvee, from a similar range, and I can fire all day and not get any hits! Do I suck that badly at gunnery? Or are the AI gunners in "radar/laser precision" visually-guided, "can't miss" mode? Such gunners are either upper-body exposed on top of a turret firing a hand-guided machine gun, or buttoned down inside a turret firing a MG with very limited vision. If exposed, explosions and rounds hitting nearby should be almost certain to have negative impact on their moving-target marksmanship. But, no. ...and these were the "average" skill-level AI guys in that armored vehicle. It's as if the AI has the exact firing solution and exact aim at all times, only thwarted by pilot maneuvering after rounds are in the air, or by ballistic limits.

[draconus]

Now, how can they get me with that hand-guided deflection shot? Yet, I try to shoot down MiG-15's with the 12.7mm (50-cal) MG on a Humvee, from a similar range, and I can fire all day and not get any hits! Do I suck that badly at gunnery? Or are the AI gunners in "radar/laser precision" visually-guided, "can't miss" mode? Such gunners are either upper-body exposed on top of a turret firing a hand-guided machine gun, or buttoned down inside a turret firing a MG with very limited vision. If exposed, explosions and rounds hitting nearby should be almost certain to have negative impact on their moving-target marksmanship. But, no. ...and these were the "average" skill-level AI guys in that armored vehicle. It's as if the AI has the exact firing solution and exact aim at all times, only thwarted by pilot maneuvering after rounds are in the air, or by ballistic limits.

It's expected to get hit if you follow predictable flight path. Even if they use random inaccuracy (for lower difficulty) you should be aware that you can be hit when you fly in the engagement range. You took the risk and it ended badly this time.

 

btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell_(pilot)

Edited September 11, 2020 by draconus

[Mr_sukebe]

Thoughts:

- the armour on the A10 is to protect the pilot from rounds of upto 23mm. Note the comment of pilot. Most of the rest of the aircraft is not that heavily armoured

- you’ll also note to designed to stop rounds upto 23mm. A 30mm round is the same size as fired by the GAU, which can penetrate tank armour. Not sure why you’re surprised at the damage that it can do to a wing

[AeriaGloria]

And if it got you in the fan face, then no armor could’ve saved you

[Andrew8604]

It's expected to get hit if you follow predictable flight path. Even if they use random inaccuracy (for lower difficulty) you should be aware that you can be hit when you fly in the engagement range. You took the risk and it ended badly this time.

 

btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell_(pilot)

 

It doesn't say what hit Kim's A-10. My guess, a single 23mm shell that exploded on contact? But I'm not an expert. It depressurized both hydraulic systems, but did not 'kill' the engines!

 

I am aware of the lethality of being within effective range. Although, the gun mount that got me was a surprise. I had assumed, incorrectly, that the armor group the fire came from was out of action...completely realistic, on that point!

 

It's not so much accuracy but that a visually directed mount like this has a firing solution at all, except by luck. Do these DShK-38's(?) have a range-sensor, like radar, and maybe a lead-computing sight? When I visually direct an M2 50-cal on a humvee, I can't get any hits. Even after firing a few thousand rounds. Because I don't have much of an idea what amount of lead and elevation to apply and whether tracers are going under the target aircraft or over it, in front of it or behind it...just can't see well enough in DCS. Even when firing at an Mi-8 doing 100 kts, it's difficult. But fly a helicopter within range of an AI machine gun and you're dead, practically every time. The AI gunner seems to always know the required elevation and lead to apply. Even after a 500-lb bomb explodes 100 meters away. There seems to be no human factors worked into the AI...sun-glare, sound dislocation, visual acuity, shock waves, shrapnel, smoke and dust obscurations, and plain old shock and panic. Seems like in some way, these factors could be programmed in, even if a bit crudely. The AI gunners never seem to say "I didn't see it." They never get fooled by looking at where the jet sound is coming from.

 

Nonetheless, this thread was about A-10A vulnerability. It couldn't have been more than a few rounds of 12.7mm and it took out both engine, completely. It could happen, sure. But the likelihood? Very rare, I think. Perhaps my gripe is more with the AI and not so much the A-10A's damage model. But I would think the near engine would have shielded the far engine from damage, and I'd have returned to base on one engine...maybe.

[AeriaGloria]

Yeah the AI knows just how to lead. They added random aiming error to the airborne AI, I’m sure it’ll get to the ground units eventually. I’m pretty sure their visibility is perfect unless it’s dark, but yeah that’s just part of DCS good or bad. It would be amazing to have insurgents firing Dshks with little accuracy, you could open a wishlist thread and ask for the airborne AI with aim error be moved to the ground units, I’m sure everyone would be behind that.

 

It’s just impossible to say if we don’t know what part of engine you were hit, if you were in a bank or the gun was right in front of you, it could easily hit the fan blades, and no matter the caliber the engine won’t be able to handle a bullet in the fan. I’m sure on future flights you will find yourself flying home with many 12.7mm holes, I bet if we looked at the track it was just a lucky shot to the fan blades, they also aren’t armored to the rear, but that’s harder to hit becuase the stabs help shield it.