Su-30MKK Full fid or FC3 version?

[iyhan_spb]

MKI with MFDs on

[F-2]

N001VEP specs from the old NIIP site. N001VE lacks the long range mode and air to ground modes.

[Chloe]

I think because of military secrets, Russian modern is completely out of the question! Chinese J 11B would be more competitive!

[FlankerFan35]

2 hours ago, Chloe said:

I think because of military secrets, Russian modern is completely out of the question! Chinese J 11B would be more competitive!

J-11B is domestic and service so unlikely.

[pepin1234]

This thread have no sense since there is a Su-30 mod out there

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@pepin1234 DCS makes no sense because there is Ace Combat

There are limits to what can be done by reskinning Su-27/Su-25T, not to mention resources and know-how that are needed to make something somewhat realistic.

By the way currently FC3 based mods seem to break the game if loaded causing units not to load and even CTDs in MP

Edited January 10, 2024 by Dr_Pavelheer

[pepin1234]

33 minutes ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@pepin1234 DCS makes no sense because there is Ace Combat

There are limits to what can be done by reskinning Su-27/Su-25T, not to mention resources and know-how that are needed to make something somewhat realistic.

By the way currently FC3 based mods seem to break the game if loaded causing units not to load and even CTDs in MP

 

Modders are working in make it better and better.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, pepin1234 said:

Modders are working in make it better and better.

With all due respect to the love mod makers put into their project, a mod is still not comparably to a proper full-fidelity module. It's a different league altogether...

[Dr_Pavelheer]

As I said, there is only so much you can do by modding FC3, you need access to API for stuff like multicrew or sensors. Even A4 mod authors had to create some workarounds and that's a 50's jet, still some features like Bullpup, Walleye or one bomb delivery mode had to be omitted due to limitations stemming from lack of access.

Keep in mind proper devs can put many more man-hours into a project by sheer virtue of getting paid, it's simply unrealistic for modders who do it as a hobby after hours.

It's worth mentioning the issue of multiplayer. There is a very good reason why most servers tend to not use mods, and if they do it's the well established ones like C130, UH-60 or A4, even then it's a pain in the lower back because people have to manually download and update them, there is a risk of abuse etc.

[FlankerFan35]

Not to mention their mod is based on MKI/M/A/SM and this is MKK/MK2 thread.

Different radars, cockpits etc.

[pepin1234]

I hope they make it real

[Irisz]

[Irisz]

I hope everyone can see that the Su-30MKK would also be a useless target drone on PvP servers because it uses N001VE radar, RVV-AE missile and not have PL-12 missile. The N001VE radar does not have a long range mode, which gives a range of 150 km for target detection, and this is where the Su-30MK2 comes in using the PL-12 missile that was added in 2015.

My opinion is that the Su-30MK2 N001VEP is needed for the current DCS World situation with the PL-12 missile, because the AIM-120D missile has not yet appeared and the Meteror missile are not here.

The solution is called FC3 or full fidelity J-15 or J-11BG because it has a PL-15 missile with a range of 200 or 300 km.

With its 145 km range, the PL-15E missile would surpass the current PvP NATO aircraft in the situation before the Meteor and AIM-120D missiles!

If you want to be competitive you have to surpass the enemy in some way, either missile or piloting skills!

The Su-35SK would also be a target drone because it does not have an RVV-BD missile with a range of 200 km.

The absolute beast would be the Russian Su-35S and R-37M with a range of 396 km, they call it Satan in the sky!

My dream aircraft would also be a target drone, and this is the FC3 style Su-37, a real masterpiece!

At the moment, I was fighting to get the Ukrainian modernized R-27ET missile on the J-11A, which would be invisible and quite fun, but they don't allow that either. 100 km maximum detection distance with the infrared homing head.

Edited June 13, 2024 by Irisz

[F-2]

19 minutes ago, Irisz said:

I hope everyone can see that the Su-30MKK would also be a useless target drone on PvP servers because it uses N001VE radar, RVV-AE missile and no PL-12 missile. The N001VE radar does not have a long range mode, which gives a range of 150 km for target detection, and this is where the Su-30MK2 comes in using the PL-12 missile that was added in 2015.

My opinion is that the Su-30MK2 N001VEP is needed for the current DCS World situation with the PL-12 missile, because the AIM120D has not yet appeared and the Meteror missiles are not here.

The solution is called FC3 or full fidelity J-15 or J-11BG because it has a PL-15 missile with a range of 200 or 300 km.

With its 145 km range, the PL-15E missile would surpass the current PvP NATO aircraft in the situation before the Meteor and AIM 120D missiles!

IF you want to be competitive you have to surpass the enemy in some way, either rocket or piloting skills!

The Su-35SK would also be a target drone because it does not have an RVV-BD with a range of 200 km.

The absolute beast would be the Russian Su-35S and R-37M with a range of 396 km, they call it Satan in the sky!

My dream aircraft would also be a target drone, and this is the FC3 style Su-37, a real masterpiece!

At the moment, I was fighting to get the Ukrainian modernized R-27ET missile on the J-11A, which would be invisible and quite fun, but they don't allow that either. 100 km maximum detection distance with the infrared homing head.

I think the MKK has been spotted with the Pylons for PL-12?

[Irisz]

22 minutes ago, F-2 said:

I think the MKK has been spotted with the Pylons for PL-12?

No, it is not competitive against AIM-120D and Meteor missiles, there is no long range mode in N001VE radar. This mode gives the N001VEP a detection range of 150 km, which is a satisfactory performance for the PL-12 missile. Look at our N001 radar on the J-11A, it can be used up to 60 km but rather 50 km, it is useless above that, and its detection distance is 100 km! It is only good for serving the R-27ER and RVV-AE because it is effective at about these distances, which is what the N001 can do!

The PL-12 missile cannot be mounted on the MKK because the MKK is made entirely of Russian components. The PL-12 missile was installed on the MK2!

The PL-12 missile equals and the PL-15 missile surpasses the AIM-120D and Meteor missiles.

Edited June 13, 2024 by Irisz

[F-2]

9 hours ago, Irisz said:

No, it is not competitive against AIM-120D and Meteor missiles, there is no long range mode in N001VE radar. This mode gives the N001VEP a detection range of 150 km, which is a satisfactory performance for the PL-12 missile. Look at our N001 radar on the J-11A, it can be used up to 60 km but rather 50 km, it is useless above that, and its detection distance is 100 km! It is only good for serving the R-27ER and RVV-AE because it is effective at about these distances, which is what the N001 can do!

The PL-12 missile cannot be mounted on the MKK because the MKK is made entirely of Russian components. The PL-12 missile was installed on the MK2!

The PL-12 missile equals and the PL-15 missile surpasses the AIM-120D and Meteor missiles.

 

Is the 150km mode able to actually look on and fire? I have the Zhuk-ME manual and it has a long range 120km mode for 5sq meter targets but actually engagement range is 80km similar to N019 (but probably much better track). Antidotally the J-10A is said to dominate the Mk2 in BVR with the same missile.

[Irisz]

58 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Is the 150km mode able to actually look on and fire? I have the Zhuk-ME manual and it has a long range 120km mode for 5sq meter targets but actually engagement range is 80km similar to N019 (but probably much better track). Antidotally the J-10A is said to dominate the Mk2 in BVR with the same missile.

I don't know, and I can't help you with that. I'm not an expert. I found a source that describes the history of Chinese aircraft, and it contained the information I linked above.

I would suggest removing the "A" from the name of the FC3 J-11A. It should receive the PL-12 and PL-15 missiles under the name J-11. Additionally, its radar detection distance should be increased to 150 km against a 5 sq meter target. This problem, which hasn't been addressed for years, would finally be solved.

The J-11BG is still a modernization of the J-11A. It does not violate military secrets to simply adjust its radar, and the missiles are not classified as they are still in DCS World.

They dare not say that there will never be an advanced Flanker in DCS World. The MiG-29C and Su-27S in the clickable version are not more effective in aerial combat, as both are obsolete against modern NATO aircraft. Even a Su-27SM would not be competitive, just as the Su-30MKK is not competitive. My idea for the J-11 would be fun for everyone who likes the Flanker!

Unfortunately, the only way to build a NATO simulator is with this marketing text that ED has drilled into everyone's brain. They are unable to allow a special case where the aircraft of the FC series are concerned!

If nothing has happened since 2018, nothing will happen after that. Even the third-party developers can't create an outdated N001VE radar!

It's just annoying that I came back to the DCS World again because everything is about NATO equipment, and nobody cares that we Flanker fans exist. No one will reveal secret military documents to them!

The entire FC series is only good for laymen to pay for it!

Sorry for the strong criticism!

[jojyrocks]

Some day, I just hope they update the current GIMP/PAINT level Su-30 AI asset we have here. I know it is too much to hope for an Su-30 full fledged module.

[Mike_Romeo]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:17 PM, jojyrocks said:

Some day, I just hope they update the current GIMP/PAINT level Su-30 AI asset we have here. I know it is too much to hope for an Su-30 full fledged module.

Deka is working on a private Su-30. Maybe it will become public one day ?

[F-2]

We’ll see if this has anything useful 

[FlankerFan35]

11 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

Deka is working on a private Su-30. Maybe it will become public one day ?

Anything less than MKI/A/M would be dead on arrival sadly

[Irisz]

It must be understood that the airplane is only a carrier and nothing more. The type and range of the radar, as well as the missile used, determine whether or not the given type of aircraft is attractive and competitive.

The Su-30MKI is better than the Su-30MKK only in terms of radar. It has no better missile than the PL-12 missile. Except maybe the K100 missile, of which it carries three and has a range of 400 km and was developed against AWACS! So it would be interesting for some people, but not competitive in practice. Not to mention that it's a complete Russian military secret, so forget it.

The solution is a Su-30MK2 or J-11B, but the real timeless, which will remain competitive even after the arrival of the METEOR and AIM120D missiles, is the J-11BG or J-15. These types use PL-12 and PL-15 missiles, which would make them valuable for years.

The Su-30MKI use Astra MK1 missile has a range of 80 km, and the PL-12 has a range of 100 km. It also has R-77, which is not competitive. You can see that the PL-12 missile is better, so the SU-30MKI is not better!

Su-30SM2 and R-37M... there is no question that they are a Russian military secret!

I want a single seat Flanker anyway!

Let's face it, Flaming Cliffs is dead after the 90s! Deka doesn't even want N001VE on the J-11A Flanker. As for elsewhere, I can't describe where, it will arrive with N001VE and MAWS sensors, and is considered basic. Here at DCS World, we have been waiting for 6 years for them to fulfill what we gave money for. (I bought the FC3 product twice) Even more annoying!

NATO equipment above all else!

I'm not asking for an ED marketing text response, thank you very much!

[BIGNEWY]

42 minutes ago, Irisz said:

It must be understood that the airplane is only a carrier and nothing more. The type and range of the radar, as well as the missile used, determine whether or not the given type of aircraft is attractive and competitive.

The Su-30MKI is better than the Su-30MKK only in terms of radar. It has no better missile than the PL-12 missile. Except maybe the K100 missile, of which it carries three and has a range of 400 km and was developed against AWACS! So it would be interesting for some people, but not competitive in practice. Not to mention that it's a complete Russian military secret, so forget it.

The solution is a Su-30MK2 or J-11B, but the real timeless, which will remain competitive even after the arrival of the METEOR and AIM120D missiles, is the J-11BG or J-15. These types use PL-12 and PL-15 missiles, which would make them valuable for years.

The Su-30MKI use Astra MK1 missile has a range of 80 km, and the PL-12 has a range of 100 km. It also has R-77, which is not competitive. You can see that the PL-12 missile is better, so the SU-30MKI is not better!

Su-30SM2 and R-37M... there is no question that they are a Russian military secret!

I want a single seat Flanker anyway!

Let's face it, Flaming Cliffs is dead after the 90s! Deka doesn't even want N001VE on the J-11A Flanker. As for elsewhere, I can't describe where, it will arrive with N001VE and MAWS sensors, and is considered basic. Here at DCS World, we have been waiting for 6 years for them to fulfill what we gave money for. (I bought the FC3 product twice) Even more annoying!

NATO equipment above all else!

I'm not asking for an ED marketing text response, thank you very much!

It is good to see you are still here on the forum as you mentioned you were leaving. I understand the frustration you have but repeating it wont change anything in this case.

We would all love to see more redfor jets in DCS, but there are rules to follow, eventually however I am sure we will see more.  

thank you

[Irisz]

1 órája BIGNEWY azt mondta:

Jó látni, hogy még mindig itt vagy a fórumon, ahogy említetted, hogy távozol. Megértem a frusztrációt, de ennek megismétlése ebben az esetben nem változtat semmit.

Mindannyian szívesen látnánk több redfor jetet a DCS-ben, de vannak szabályok, amelyeket be kell tartani, de biztos vagyok benne, hogy még többet fogunk látni. 

köszönöm

These are just thoughts on which aircraft type is competitive against the AIM-120D and the Meteror missile!

[FlankerFan35]

16 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

DCS moves by governmental approvals, if the Chinese government doesn't give approval to Deka to build the last aircrafts without broken military secrets, don't expect a "Super Flanker''...

 

No MK variant is "Super", but it doesn't matter because we won't get them.

17 hours ago, Irisz said:

It must be understood that the airplane is only a carrier and nothing more. The type and range of the radar, as well as the missile used, determine whether or not the given type of aircraft is attractive and competitive.

The Su-30MKI is better than the Su-30MKK only in terms of radar. It has no better missile than the PL-12 missile. Except maybe the K100 missile, of which it carries three and has a range of 400 km and was developed against AWACS! So it would be interesting for some people, but not competitive in practice. Not to mention that it's a complete Russian military secret, so forget it.

The solution is a Su-30MK2 or J-11B, but the real timeless, which will remain competitive even after the arrival of the METEOR and AIM120D missiles, is the J-11BG or J-15. These types use PL-12 and PL-15 missiles, which would make them valuable for years.

The Su-30MKI use Astra MK1 missile has a range of 80 km, and the PL-12 has a range of 100 km. It also has R-77, which is not competitive. You can see that the PL-12 missile is better, so the SU-30MKI is not better!

Su-30SM2 and R-37M... there is no question that they are a Russian military secret!

I want a single seat Flanker anyway!

Let's face it, Flaming Cliffs is dead after the 90s! Deka doesn't even want N001VE on the J-11A Flanker. As for elsewhere, I can't describe where, it will arrive with N001VE and MAWS sensors, and is considered basic. Here at DCS World, we have been waiting for 6 years for them to fulfill what we gave money for. (I bought the FC3 product twice) Even more annoying!

NATO equipment above all else!

I'm not asking for an ED marketing text response, thank you very much!

I don't think K-100 even entered service and we will NEVER get an FF and very unlikely a FC3 J-11B, BG, J-15.