Air to ground guns shooting high in ccip

[Shimvolski]

I did some air to ground guns today on the instant action ground attack practice in Syria. The rounds are hitting way high for me in ccip. I turned off the radar to see if there was some issue with that and it didn’t help. I then went into the guns and rockets qualification in Caucasus and it worked perfectly. Anyone else having this issue? Is it me or is it something to do with the Syria map?

Edited October 10, 2020 by Shimvolski

[Swift.]

You have to wait for the IN RNG cue. Its annoying, but apparently correct.

[Shimvolski]

I was definitely in range. Did you try this mission?

[oldcrusty]

You have to wait for the IN RNG cue. Its annoying, but apparently correct.

 

Why the heck do they call it CCIP?;) The reticle is either lined up with the boresight or "clicked" down like a rifle scope... I have to do some tests but to me it looks like boresight. Yea, there is a range finder running but that's about it.

[Mike_Romeo]

Maybe its because of the unevenness of the surface ? The CCIP piper is calculated based on the radar altitude and an uneven or inclined surface will lead to incorrect results and so you will miss your target.

[oldcrusty]

Maybe its because of the unevenness of the surface ? The CCIP piper is calculated based on the radar altitude and an uneven or inclined surface will lead to incorrect results and so you will miss your target.

 

Negatory, terrain was flat as a pancake. I used AGR. And... I don't miss:D

 

It sucks but I learned how to use it even in high cross winds.

[Ryuk99]

Maybe its because of the unevenness of the surface ? The CCIP piper is calculated based on the radar altitude and an uneven or inclined surface will lead to incorrect results and so you will miss your target.

The hornet uses AGR not RAlt for ccip

 

Gesendet von meinem Mi A2 Lite mit Tapatalk

[xnomad]

possibly this? Or does it happen every time in Syria? The issue below has happened to me a couple of times in A/G and A/A modes where the pipper is not the impact point.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=211945&page=8

[oldcrusty]

possibly this? Or does it happen every time in Syria? The issue below has happened to me a couple of times in A/G and A/A modes where the pipper is not the impact point.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=211945&page=8

 

I forgot about that thread already. That was quite a few builds ago...

 

The way I see it now... I can use the gun fairly accurately with the pipper pointing at the target and 'in range' but That's not what CCIP does, is it.

[BarTzi]

Why the heck do they call it CCIP?;) The reticle is either lined up with the boresight or "clicked" down like a rifle scope... I have to do some tests but to me it looks like boresight. Yea, there is a range finder running but that's about it.

 

Because it's CCIP with a range limitation. Imagine going for a gun run and having the piper represent the bullet impact point all the way through your run. It will start very low and only cover the target while you are in range. That won't be comftrable or intuitive at all.

 

You put the thing on the thing, and while in range - the bullets hit the mark. Sounds like CCIP to me.

[Swift.]

Because it's CCIP with a range limitation. Imagine going for a gun run and having the piper represent the bullet impact point all the way through your run. It will start very low and only cover the target while you are in range. That won't be comftrable or intuitive at all.

 

You put the thing on the thing, and while in range - the bullets hit the mark. Sounds like CCIP to me.

 

I mean TBF, it's computed outside of max range in hog and viper so it's not unreasonable to expect the same from hornet

[oldcrusty]

Because it's CCIP with a range limitation. Imagine going for a gun run and having the piper represent the bullet impact point all the way through your run. It will start very low and only cover the target while you are in range. That won't be comftrable or intuitive at all.

 

You put the thing on the thing, and while in range - the bullets hit the mark. Sounds like CCIP to me.

 

OK then, I'm renaming my rifle scope "CCIP" today. The only thing that the reticle is representing is an impact point at the 'In (effective :() range' tick mark. It's not calculating anything, just ranging.

However the heck this thing works in the real thing...

 

BTW, The main reason this rigid reticle sucks is target fixation. That's why I have my own method of target approach. If you just plaster the reticle on the target and your approach angle is not exactly perfect... it can happen, watch your VV.

That brings me to another point. How do we even know the boresight and ballistics are represented correctly.

[BarTzi]

OK then, I'm renaming my rifle scope "CCIP" today.

 

If you have a fixed scope that allows you to hit a target at X yards with zero adjustments (point, shoot, hit), then you can call it CCIP. Since it's probably not the case, a long range scope acts more like the manual option.

[oldcrusty]

If you have a fixed scope that allows you to hit a target at X yards with zero adjustments (point, shoot, hit), then you can call it CCIP. Since it's probably not the case, a long range scope acts more like the manual option.

 

You mean... sort of like holding off at 1500m along BDC scale or the 'feel':music_whistling:

 

In that case you're right. My brain is in CCIP mode... most of the time. The reticle keeps drifting up and down, corrects for wind...:drink:

[MacEwan]

You mean... sort of like holding off at 1500m along BDC scale or the 'feel':music_whistling:

 

In that case you're right. My brain is in CCIP mode... most of the time. The reticle keeps drifting up and down, corrects for wind...:drink:

 

Not quite.

 

If your scope is zeroed to 1000m then your impact point will only match your crosshair at 1000m (simplifying for the example). Aiming closer or further will change the impact point.

 

With CCIP as long as you're "IN RNG" your impact point will match the center of the pipper (crosshair in the example above). In CCIP this is true even as you move closer to the target.

[oldcrusty]

Not quite.

 

If your scope is zeroed to 1000m then your impact point will only match your crosshair at 1000m (simplifying for the example). Aiming closer or further will change the impact point.

 

With CCIP as long as you're "IN RNG" your impact point will match the center of the pipper (crosshair in the example above). In CCIP this is true even as you move closer to the target.

 

I see... :doh: (back to 1 squared)

 

Have you noticed how quickly 'break X' comes up? Like I said, I can hit the target every time, even at high speed but I never noticed reticle move. Besides, the angle just doesn't look right too me.

One day someone hopefully will lay it out for us how this system works in the Hornet and... show some pics :)

Edited October 13, 2020 by Gripes323

[BarTzi]

Like I said, I can hit the target every time, even at high speed but I never noticed reticle move.

 

Why should it? It only moves sideways to account for wind. It won't move up and down on your hud, since it has the range cale. There's no point. And as for how the system works in real life, there are many videos online showing footage of the gun being used.

[oldcrusty]

Why should it? It only moves sideways to account for wind. It won't move up and down on your hud, since it has the range cale. There's no point. And as for how the system works in real life, there are many videos online showing footage of the gun being used.

 

All right, I'll see if I can find the vids. Basically I just need a confirmation that this is the way it works in real jet.

 

No real problems hitting the targets with guns or rockets and no the reticle didn't compensate for wind, at least I don't think it did but it's easy to do seeing where your VV is. Just a tiny amount in the opposite direction from VV drift.

I made a clip showing a shallow approach, steep approach then rockets. Crosswind from the left.

On the first (shallow) pass I moved the reticle way too much initially into the wind but corrected and drove the reticle toward the target.

So, I can live with it. It's just my curiosity that drove my persistent posting:D

 

[Harker]

No real problems hitting the targets with guns or rockets and no the reticle didn't compensate for wind, at least I don't think it did but it's easy to do seeing where your VV is. Just a tiny amount in the opposite direction from VV drift.

IIRC, the reticle should compensate for wind by itself. There is a way to input wind data in HSI>DATA>A/C, but it's not implemented yet.

[BarTzi]

IIRC, the reticle should compensate for wind by itself. There is a way to input wind data in HSI>DATA>A/C, but it's not implemented yet.

 

It does, and A/G mode can't be caged so that might help. However, if Gripes has wind coming only from the west (blowing from 2-7-0 to 0-9-0) the position of the reticle in the mission is wrong.

 

If the wind is coming from the left side of his hud, it means the bullets will drift to the right over time. If that's the case, the reticle should be on the right side of the target, forcing him to correct to the left and place the barrel to the left of the target.

 

When you watch the video, you see his piper is shown on the left side of the target. In that case, placing the piper over the target (moving the plane and the barrel to the right) will make the drift more severe.

Edited October 14, 2020 by BarTzi

[Harker]

It does, and A/G mode can't be caged so that might help. However, if Gripes has wind coming only from the west (blowing from 2-7-0 to 0-9-0) the position of the reticle in the mission is wrong.

 

If the wind is coming from the left side of his hud, it means the bullets will drift to the right over time. If that's the case, the reticle should be on the right side of the target, forcing him to correct to the left and place the barrel to the left of the target.

 

When you watch the video, you see his piper is shown on the left side of the target. In that case, placing the piper over the target (moving the plane and the barrel to the right) will make the drift more severe.

Yeah, you have to correct manually now. I usually find that placing the target somewhere between the CCIP reticle center and the VV does the job, but it's an educated guess. With respect to wind, the reticle now works like a fixed sight. Hopefully this, along with some other wind-related issues will get fixed when the INS and HSI get finished.

[oldcrusty]

Yeah, you have to correct manually now. I usually find that placing the target somewhere between the CCIP reticle center and the VV does the job, but it's an educated guess. With respect to wind, the reticle now works like a fixed sight. Hopefully this, along with some other wind-related issues will get fixed when the INS and HSI get finished.

 

Since the devs already made the INS/NAV computer calculate the VV, ground track, speed, drift and they probably know muzzle velocity of specific rounds, mid range and terminal and the rest of the ballistic 'stuff', they can probably apply it to the gun's CCIP.

Hey, the dumb bomb CCIP works fairly good and compensates for wind... the last time I checked.

[MacEwan]

That's a good point. There's no wind compensation on the pipper in that video