Vulching....

[monotwix]

Yes.

If a fighter escorts a bomber and equipped with multi purpose canon targeting system and a plane like su-33 with IR missiles and bombs...

I watched Falklands War on tv yesterday and the harrier planes did both etc. ...

The hole thing was an exploit of opportunities and that was a real war.

[cool_t]

Hey :D how about when someone flies to your base, theres no a2a opposition cause both of the jets are parked, makes a single pass spray and pray with guns, hits you with 1 or 2 bullets and kamikazes into you?

 

all because that person knows that the SAMs will rip him apart and he won't get another chance at another gun run.......and after all that demands you say GK to him afterwards "because its was hard to get past all the fighters and SAMs" :D

 

Well perhaps Ill send out some Tac-Views of me and my Eagle Riping past SAMs to take out A-50s, and or SAM Radar sites while I land the bird back at home plate; tons of times at that. Penitrating Deep within the enemy zone is what the Eagle does best in the hands of a risky pilot.

 

10 times on the tarmack I let some one go, this time the server allowed Vulching. "NO MORE FREE-Bees" rules are rules. If some one does not like Vulching stay off servers that alow it.

 

This is not The Civil War where we stand in line formation and volley missiles and say "Grand job Chap" this is the world of LOMAC, and its a virtual WAR. Taking advantage of the enemy is what a good pilot is trained to do. There is no second place in a dog fight.

 

There are alot of good pilots out there and some can apreciate the hard work and determination of pilots that "Think outside the box" and show up on the front door step of an enemy airfield.

[Boberro]

When we get point that it is WAR we must completely destroy enemy. No matter if it is lame or not. On ground and in air. Also good idea is destroying runway by bombs. War is war enemy never sleeps.

[Indy]

- This is not RL

- This is not real combat

- You are obviously not concerned with your own life when you fly into an enemy SAM zone to vulch people

- The SAM AI is far inferior to real SAMs that would blast you to pieces for trying this, as opposed to exploiting LO's SAM issues

- You're not putting yourself on any kind of line

 

People play this game to have fun.

 

They do it for the thrill. I don't think that's playing 'real'.

So are we playing for real? or fun?

 

Maybe if "they do it for the thrill" that is fun to them?

 

:noexpression:

[monotwix]

I believe what some of us are trying to say is that this 'evaluation' you are referring to is a non-factor. They'll go in even when they KNOW the most likely outcome will be death, in the game. They do it for the thrill. I don't think that's playing 'real'.

 

The top factor is a mission well made and the servers that serve it.

And if you start a mission from the beginning and see a foe flying overhead than the understanding of the mission task should get closer.:smilewink:

[Willy p.]

Vulching, as a rule of thumb is not the way to engage the enemy. To some LockOn is only a game, but to the several that fly by a code it is a gross display of poor sportsmanship. For a fighter to engage and be engaged in pure aerial combat is the only admirable way to fight. If you lose the engagement, then it was the skill of your foe that did you in…not some vulching idiot. Vulching by an A-10 or Su-25 I can understand, they were designed for this roll. Anything else is just a display of poor sportsmanship!

[Frostie]

Fighter pilots vulch for ego, to boost they're score, then use the excuse that its war, in a real war that guy wouldn't respawn and take off again and it would have been a job well done but this is a game and chivalry and fair play should be a fundamental part, making it your job to openly seekout vulching opportunities is the same sort of etiquette as RL pilots shooting up parachutes.

[Willy p.]

I concur; shooting a fighter on the ground is the same as shooting an unarmed person. Again, unless it is by a ground attack aircraft only. There is no sport in shooting a fish in a barrel.

[Indy]

Fighter pilots vulch for ego, to boost they're score

In your opinion. Further, it is not always to boost THEIR score, but maybe their own fun factor?

 

then use the excuse that its war

Great point, thank you. Next time i'm 50 clicks from your base, i'll fly a cap and wait for you to get ready. let me know when you have rolled, gear up, and have acheived your proper angels, heading, and you're ready to go nose hot. I'd hate to have ANY cheap fights. That would bother me man, for real. :(

 

in a real war that guy wouldn't respawn and take off again and it would have been a job well done but this is a game and chivalry and fair play should be a fundamental part, making it your job to openly seekout vulching opportunities is the same sort of etiquette as RL pilots shooting up parachutes.

Oh good fun, do you really want to base your argument on real war? Please give me a break if you have a moment.

[Grimes]

Vulching is one of those things where its ok one moment and completely wrong the next moment. Yeah if a server states vulching is fair to gameplay people can do it. But when just a few aircraft can't even get in the air because they are killed before their engines spool up, vulching becomes detrimental to gameplay and people start to leave. Are they being cry-babies about it? Probably, but then again you are removing their ability to actually play the game and enjoy it(which is kinda the point of it being a game). So while its perfectly legal by server rules, is your intent to drive the enemy away from even playing? Even when there are other bases to spawn at, getting vulched like that on the ground 1 or 2 times can leave a sour taste, lowering the willingness to play the game.

[cool_t]

 

in review of some of these posts, it seems that virtual snobbery is starting to take a hold again. Words like "honour, chivalry, idiots?" i don think are fair comments. Especially when these servers that ore open to the public and run by people whom specifically put in their briefings that vulching IS allowed. Once again its a few trying to force their standards on others.

 

:music_whistling:

 

Well said, as of late I have been trying some new tactics instead of 45,000ft turn and burn. Servers that alow Vulching are more realistic anyway. Also getin my feet in the dirt will make me a more rounded pilot as far as "High, Med, Low" altitude combat. You realy learn alot about energy, fuel consumption, and ground masking/ambush tactics. Ya it stinks gettin killed but when I first hit the LOMAC seen "I SUCKED" bad!!! On that note here are some more thoughts on Vulching.

 

Forinstance,

 

1. When Vulching is not allowed there is a range limitation on how far combatints will go into enemy airspace. Which limits your goals, skills, and over all expeience in the LOMAC realm. Forinstance, in the RAF server vulching is not allowed so why bother going to ambush an enemy airfield. Where also I enjoyed buzzing Bandit air fields where some people would just not take off from there base inorder to not get killed. Well I respect server rules so I figure ill take some bad guys out then be killed, run out of fuel, or take out SAMs with the gunz.

 

2. When vulching is not allowed its like you give the total advantage to bandits that are ont the runway waiting for you to get hit by a SAM, or another bandit or the worst is they will take off when you are in a RTB egression; oh which is full of honour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

3. I feel that if some people do not want to get Vulched or do not feel that Vulching is "Nice" they can exit the server when bandits are close, or just not fly on servers that allow Vulching. I feel no difference which way some one does there busines but when your hit your hit deal with the skill of the bandit that got you and learn from the fight. Insults and crying obviously does not help anything or any one reguardless of acusational judgements. A "Good Kill" and "S!" will do fine.

 

:thumbup:

[Frostie]

In your opinion. Further, it is not always to boost THEIR score, but maybe their own fun factor?

 

Great point, thank you. Next time i'm 50 clicks from your base, i'll fly a cap and wait for you to get ready. let me know when you have rolled, gear up, and have acheived your proper angels, heading, and you're ready to go nose hot. I'd hate to have ANY cheap fights. That would bother me man, for real. :(

 

Oh good fun, do you really want to base your argument on real war? Please give me a break if you have a moment.

In your opinion obviously.

Two posts and you already sound like a brainwashed deputy.:)

 

Fairplay and respect is all that should matter in a Game between others, if you want to vulch then by all means do it, just don't expect to be liked for it. If you beat every SAM thats at that airbase why not do something clever like destroying the SAM's instead of having reams of fun:huh: killing a stationary plane. Leave the ground attack to strike planes and just carry on with A2A.

 

Wouldn't it be fun if someone from red infiltrated the blue side and pinched a blue aircraft and shot down the blue AWACS. It would be fun for the guy doing it. And it could happen in RL.:D

[Excelsior]

I always lol when people use the terms "honour and chivalry" when describing pilots, in particular fighter pilots. War is war, it's either kill or be killed. "honour and chivalry" amongst pilots died during the first half of WW1.

 

In regards to Lock-On. "Strafing" or Airbase attack missions in a mud mover such as A-10/Su-25 I see as ok. Popping off a R-73 or ET at grounded aircraft I frown upon. But hey, since I don't own a server I have no say in it. If I get strafed in a server which allows it all well and good but if I get popped on the ground by a AAM I can either change base or if this option is unavailable to me, I leave. simple as that.

 

Also, IMHO this term "vulching" is like the 16 year olds screaming out "Camper" in COD4 because you use tactics instead of running into their line of fire like a madman.

[cool_t]

In your opinion obviously.

Two posts and you already sound like a brainwashed deputy.:)

 

Fairplay and respect is all that should matter in a Game between others, if you want to vulch then by all means do it, just don't expect to be liked for it. If you beat every SAM thats at that airbase why not do something clever like destroying the SAM's instead of having reams of fun:huh: killing a stationary plane. Leave the ground attack to strike planes and just carry on with A2A.

 

Wouldn't it be fun if someone from red infiltrated the blue side and pinched a blue aircraft and shot down the blue AWACS. It would be fun for the guy doing it. And it could happen in RL.:D

 

Well, If the opertunity alows SAM killing sure.

 

I truly feel that you dont get the fact that when your "Vulching" an enemy air base its skill that got you there in the first place.

 

Also I feel that you do not understand that If you are at the enemy base not "Vulching" you give the bandits time to get up in the air or give them the advantage of where or when to take off.

 

There is absolutly no logic in waiting for 1,2,3,4 or 5, bandits to scramble of the tarmac-runway in three differnt directions in order to get up in the air.

 

Also when your in a dog fight/BVR and you almost out of fuel and your out of weapons should we consider this a kind of "Vulching" as well.

 

As stated befor the RAF server is a good server for no "Vulching" as far as other servers go if your on the ground and im at your air field your getting hit by the cannons.

 

Vulching is a part of the game there is no honour in WAR.

[Frostie]

chivalry

kindness and courteousness especially towards women or the weak

 

Preying on guys who have just spent time loading the game up to fly some BVR or have a dogfight with other people online is shameful especially when your talking about guys who don't have anywhere near as much time to fly around in the LOMAC world as these so called 'Vulch Crusaders'.

 

Call it what you like but Vulching is having fun at others expense taking advantage of spawn points from guys just entering a game, its this same sort of selfish attitude that see's guys entering servers full of A2G planes and pwning them in his Mig, or entering 'A2G only' servers with the sole intention of shooting down A-10's in his Su-25T. Pure selfish fun for the aggressor but he's just taking advantage of the weak trying his best to spoil everyone elses fun. Don't expect to make many friends.

[Pilotasso]

Fighter pilots vulch for ego, to boost they're score, then use the excuse that its war, in a real war that guy wouldn't respawn and take off again and it would have been a job well done but this is a game and chivalry and fair play should be a fundamental part, making it your job to openly seekout vulching opportunities is the same sort of etiquette as RL pilots shooting up parachutes.

 

chivalry

kindness and courteousness especially towards women or the weak

 

Preying on guys who have just spent time loading the game up to fly some BVR or have a dogfight with other people online is shameful especially when your talking about guys who don't have anywhere near as much time to fly around in the LOMAC world as these so called 'Vulch Crusaders'.

 

Call it what you like but Vulching is having fun at others expense taking advantage of spawn points from guys just entering a game, its this same sort of selfish attitude that see's guys entering servers full of A2G planes and pwning them in his Mig, or entering 'A2G only' servers with the sole intention of shooting down A-10's in his Su-25T. Pure selfish fun for the aggressor but he's just taking advantage of the weak trying his best to spoil everyone elses fun. Don't expect to make many friends.

 

 

Somewhat surprising posts. The exact same way I feel about using exploits. except that Vulching hapens IRL and using net code exploits do not. If this is generaly what most people hate, then I wonder why exploits are so popular instead. This while not completely intentional sounds like double standards to me.

 

And let me tell you, it has nothing to do with chilvarry.Kindness?!:huh: Bolox!! It has no place in combat, real or simulated. Instead what everyone has to consider, is respect for others playing online by not poking them with a quick fast route to victory without the required skill.

Vulch requires some skill, Exploits needs much less skill.

You can vulch for the sake of realism but exploit the games flaws is something different entirely.

 

Kindness and chilvarry is your option, respect should be standard for everyone. Dont confuse one for the other.

 

thow without skill, I shall smite thee! :D

[Washout]

I agree with pilotasso somewhat on this. Although personally i prefer to disable the runways/taxiways with some heavy iron and watch the enemy try to negotiate there way around the craters for take off, *comedy ensues.:D

[Indy]

Somewhat surprising post. The exact same way I feel about using exploits. except that Vulching hapens IRL and using net code exploits do not. If this is generaly what most people hate, then I wonder why exploits are so popular instead. This while not completely intentional sounds like double standards to me.

 

And let me tell you, it has nothing to do with chilvarry.Kindness?!:huh: Bolox!! It has no place in combat, real or simulated. Instead what everyone has to consider, is respect for others playing online by not poking them with a quick fast route to victory without the required skill.

Vulch requires some skill, Exploits needs much less skill.

You can vulch for the sake of realism but exploit the games flaws is something different entirely.

 

Kindness and chilvarry is your option, respect should be standard. Dont confuse one for the other.

 

thow without skill, I shall smite thee! :D

+1. Well said.

[Indy]

Two posts and you already sound like a brainwashed deputy.:)

wow.

 

If you beat every SAM thats at that airbase why not do something clever like destroying the SAM's instead of having reams of fun:huh: killing a stationary plane.

I have always (read the one time i've vulched) cleared all air defenses with a group, on a planned attack, before attacking anything on the ground. In fact, i'm pretty sure the kills I had were just as the plane was taking off. Also, cool_t got me on Saturday as I was taking off from Maykop. While not vulching per se, I still saluted the kill. In fact, on the times I've been attacked on the ground while spooling, I like the rush i get of wanting my engines to spool faster please so I can try to get in the air...I love just getting away, and shooting them down.

 

Leave the ground attack to strike planes and just carry on with A2A.

Oh, so since my a2a fighter's primary role is a2a, I should ignore the ability to shoot an enemy that is on the ground? Noted.

 

Maybe I have a jaded view of this vulching thing since I normally play on servers that have adequate air defenses.

[159th_Viper]

........since I normally play on servers that have adequate air defenses.

 

Then Vulching should not be an issue at all and attendantly should not occur ;)

 

Attempts at it - yes, ending in the particular Fighter Jock getting his ass handed to him by said Base Defences!

 

The Inherent deficiencies of LockOn aside, there should be no reason why particular missions should and could not be set up in such a way so as to afford complete and/or adequate Base Defence, ranging from the Igla to an overlapping S-300 Network - guaranteeing that not even a sustained assault will nullify the SAM Defence network of the primary base within the alloted Mission time, normally a 3 hour rotation.

 

Personally - I despise the Notion. I don't see anyone being able to hop into a Fighter (or Bomber for that matter) and Vulch aircraft at Nellis AFB (or any other major AFB) anytime soon, so there's no reason why people should be able to get away with it in LockOn............that is, unless the Mission is specifically designed and/or tailored to invite just such behaviour :music_whistling:

[RedTiger]

Wow...I had no idea certain people would be against it. I probably shouldn't have an opinion on this, since I don't play online, but when I voted "yes" I thought it was vulching within the confines of the mission (fighter sweep and you catch the other side by surprise before they take off), not griefing.

[cool_t]

I think some posts are and have a logic base in discussion. I also feel that there is no love lost since a good number of "Servers" have rules about Vulching.

 

So for the People who do not want to risk learning new tactics, or taking a chance, flying well within the SAM WEZ, or Killing A-50s/E-3s, or risk being killed on the ground by all means stay off the servers that alow Vulching and limit your self to the same old flight patterns. (Using ACMI as an AWAX is an EXPLOIT, so stay on the tarmac or exit the server when Im 45,000 feet above your runway):smilewink:

 

By all means please use the servers that have no Vulching to your advantage and stay off the servers that alow it, because I 100% do not want to insult anyone with my own skill, determination, and respect for the servers "Rules"

 

This comunity does not need arguments about "Non-exploits" in the game where pilots can take advantage of many "Un-fixable" exploits.

[Frostie]

Somewhat surprising posts. The exact same way I feel about using exploits. except that Vulching hapens IRL and using net code exploits do not. If this is generaly what most people hate, then I wonder why exploits are so popular instead. This while not completely intentional sounds like double standards to me.

 

And let me tell you, it has nothing to do with chilvarry.Kindness?!:huh: Bolox!! It has no place in combat, real or simulated. Instead what everyone has to consider, is respect for others playing online by not poking them with a quick fast route to victory without the required skill.

Vulch requires some skill, Exploits needs much less skill.

You can vulch for the sake of realism but exploit the games flaws is something different entirely.

 

Kindness and chilvarry is your option, respect should be standard for everyone. Dont confuse one for the other.

 

thow without skill, I shall smite thee! :D

Nice post respect is important.

 

But what I don't understand is what sounds like double standards? and how do you tie up exploits with my post?

I hope your not implying that I use exploits? That ET that killed you the other day -was- legit:D

 

When I mention chivalry im associating it with gaming not RL.

 

Even so to say there is no chivalry in warfare is ignorant, if there wasn't then pilots would be gunning down the parachutes in war to stop them pilots getting back in the air, as they are the enemy, or am I wrong? thats just respect, right.

[Grimes]

Vulching can and has happened in the real world. Except we all forget that its probably not called "vulching." If anyone could find the writings of any air-force commander from World War 2 complaining about how the enemy side had "vulched" all his aircraft before they could take off I would give you all of my money.

 

Perhaps we should reason why it has been named "vulching" in the first place.

 

"vulture [ˈvaltʃə] noun

a type of large bird of prey feeding chiefly on dead bodies" -Dictionary.com

 

This definition fits well in lockon where any aircraft sitting on the ground is effectively dead (helpless) as they can't fight back by any means until they get airborne.

[RvETito]

cool_t, it's good to have a selfesteem but to be able to control it is even better ;)

 

Personaly, I dont' really care about vulching that much. What I dislike is the A2A missiles(especially radar-guided) usage against ground targets (or planes on the ground). That's a huge exploit of the game and pretty lame IMO. BTW I was just in the 169th and for the short time I played I got team killed over Sochi and as soon as I respawned I took an Archer while I was holding short. You know how I felt? I felt that I've wasted my time.