Virtual reality gloves?

[zaelu]

How about Cam-Trax? http://www.cam-trax.com/index.php

 

They said it will be free... and because is so simple... I don't know, it kinda boosts the confidence in it. :pilotfly:

[Rhino4]

Camtrax looks cool. A couple pieces of colored tape on your fingers and you have vr gloves. And the program is free...EVERYONE can have "real" clickable cockpits now, lol. Just gotta figure out how to integrate it into bs...

[TridentX]

Check this out:

 

http://edimensional.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=135

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZABh01HVIM&feature=related

[Rhino4]

400 bucks...And that doesn't really have anything to do with vr gloves. Cool, but the youtube vid looked a little slow/buggy...Like I said above...camtrax = free

[crime]

Based on what vr920 owners say, it seems that its headtracker is even worst than the one in the z800. At least it allows good stereoscopic gaming... if you don't care about reading instruments.... only 640x480 :huh:

[Blaze1]

Managing the Virtual Cockpit with ... 'Finger Tracker'

 

The following idea I had, uses the TrackIR principles to aid in managing the virtual cockpit. This may not be original and may have been mentioned elsewhere, if thats the case I'm sorry in advance.;)

 

Basically it would be a very similar system to TrackIR but instead of head tracking a finger is tracked instead.

 

With current software (sims) the cursor used to activate cockpit switches and controls on screen has 2 DOF the X and Y axis (like a mouse). For this hand tracker a Z-axis would be necessary.

 

In order to operate switches in the 3D cockpit with the finger tracker the player would have to move his/her finger into a particular user defined zone in their real environment, for example:

 

A player sitting at their desk playing Black Shark, would want to specify a zone next to his/her right thigh as the right control console (the panel with controls to operate the INS, stability augmentation, Shkval sensor and radios). This right console zone would preferably have similar dimensions to the real thing. It would in this case be a rectangular box with the bottom of the box representing the surface of the console where the switches and knobs are placed, and the top of the box being defined by the player as the maximum height the players finger/reflective sticker has to be at to 'lock' onto the switch below it in the 3D world. Of course in reality nothing will actually be present in this zone.

 

In reality the further you move your hand away from your eyes the smaller it seems to get. In the same way because of the Z-axis, we can give the player visual feedback regarding his/her finger position in the game by using a 3D cursor or the 3D animated finger of the pilot/gunner/WSO.

 

Once the players animated finger/cursor is locked onto a switch all the player has to do is move the finger in the correct direction to function that switch.

Another method could be a combined finger tracker with a button. When the 3D cursor/finger is over a specific switch in the game, the player presses his/her thumb against the finger button and holds it there to 'lock' the in-game finger & thumb onto a switch. The player then moves his/her finger in the correct direction to function the switch.

 

Perhaps this idea could be expanded further to included all fingers and thumbs plus hand tracking with 6DOF to allow more than one switch to be activated at a time?

 

Blaze1

[mckee14]

it wouldn't work like the trackIR, which is a passive system. in this case, you need at least 2 dots per finger for 3DOF which are reflecting the IR beams.

 

maybe it would be possible with a single active emitter on your fingertip and the passive sensor as a reciever on the screen...

 

but anyways, i think for real immersion you still have to build your own cockpit with all the switches etc.

 

i still wait for the release of the special "hat" which is "reading you mind"... if it works fine, you can access most of the switches just by thinking :)

[Blaze1]

it wouldn't work like the trackIR, which is a passive system. in this case, you need at least 2 dots per finger for 3DOF which are reflecting the IR beams.

 

maybe it would be possible with a single active emitter on your fingertip and the passive sensor as a reciever on the screen...

 

but anyways, i think for real immersion you still have to build your own cockpit with all the switches etc.

 

i still wait for the release of the special "hat" which is "reading you mind"... if it works fine, you can access most of the switches just by thinking :)

 

Your right, it needs two maybe three 'dots' per finger and would be a passive system. You really only need 'dots' for two fingers, one for the right hand and one for the left. It isn't really necessary to use every finger, this was just a suggestion, it would make the system more complex than it really needs to be.

 

Yes a real physical cockpit would be the best solution, particular for immersion as you mentioned. I feel however that its perhaps a very expensive route to follow considering the amount of switches, dials and knobs plus other hardware you would need for the project.

Another thing to consider is that DCS plan on modelling several aircraft with equal fidelity to the Black Shark, how compatible would a phyical cockpit be in this scenario?

The DCS team have done a fantastic job modelling the Ka-50 cockpit already, I personally would love to put the 3D cockpit to use.;)

 

As for the mind reading cap, it would great for firing those rearward missiles.:P

 

Blaze1

[Feuerfalke]

The following idea I had, uses the TrackIR principles to aid in managing the virtual cockpit. This may not be original and may have been mentioned elsewhere, if thats the case I'm sorry in advance.;)

 

Basically it would be a very similar system to TrackIR but instead of head tracking a finger is tracked instead.

 

With current software (sims) the cursor used to activate cockpit switches and controls on screen has 2 DOF the X and Y axis (like a mouse). For this hand tracker a Z-axis would be necessary.

 

In order to operate switches in the 3D cockpit with the finger tracker the player would have to move his/her finger into a particular user defined zone in their real environment, for example:

 

A player sitting at their desk playing Black Shark, would want to specify a zone next to his/her right thigh as the right control console (the panel with controls to operate the INS, stability augmentation, Shkval sensor and radios). This right console zone would preferably have similar dimensions to the real thing. It would in this case be a rectangular box with the bottom of the box representing the surface of the console where the switches and knobs are placed, and the top of the box being defined by the player as the maximum height the players finger/reflective sticker has to be at to 'lock' onto the switch below it in the 3D world. Of course in reality nothing will actually be present in this zone.

 

In reality the further you move your hand away from your eyes the smaller it seems to get. In the same way because of the Z-axis, we can give the player visual feedback regarding his/her finger position in the game by using a 3D cursor or the 3D animated finger of the pilot/gunner/WSO.

 

Once the players animated finger/cursor is locked onto a switch all the player has to do is move the finger in the correct direction to function that switch.

Another method could be a combined finger tracker with a button. When the 3D cursor/finger is over a specific switch in the game, the player presses his/her thumb against the finger button and holds it there to 'lock' the in-game finger & thumb onto a switch. The player then moves his/her finger in the correct direction to function the switch.

 

Perhaps this idea could be expanded further to included all fingers and thumbs plus hand tracking with 6DOF to allow more than one switch to be activated at a time?

 

Blaze1

 

I had the same idea, starting to read the initial posts. IMHO you don't even have to use the 3rd axis. You can map the "push" to a button on your joystick - little less immersive, but a lot easier to achieve.

 

With the third axis, this is very much like the Products from Navisis. They consist of a scanner similar to TrackIR and a pen, turning any surface into a drawing board - even a monitor. :thumbup:

 

http://www.navisis.com/ENGLISH/index.php

 

I'm considering to buy one anyway for working together with my old 17"-TFT.

[Blaze1]

I had the same idea, starting to read the initial posts. IMHO you don't even have to use the 3rd axis. You can map the "push" to a button on your joystick - little less immersive, but a lot easier to achieve.

 

With the third axis, this is very much like the Products from Navisis. They consist of a scanner similar to TrackIR and a pen, turning any surface into a drawing board - even a monitor. :thumbup:

 

http://www.navisis.com/ENGLISH/index.php

 

I'm considering to buy one anyway for working together with my old 17"-TFT.

 

Nice find Feuerfalke:). You won't look like Tom Cruise in Minority Report with this;).

[Rhino4]

If you used TrackIR for your finger wouldn't you lose 6DOF view? Or can the trackir track two different things at once?

[Feuerfalke]

If you used TrackIR for your finger wouldn't you lose 6DOF view? Or can the trackir track two different things at once?

 

True.

 

But you can use 2 TrackIRs or TrackIR + Webcam :smilewink:

 

You can configure one to work as 6DOF and one to control the mouse.

[Duke49th]

Maybe this site is interesting: http://vresources.org/vrhardware_link_list?page=1

And this site too: http://www.vrealities.com/index.html

 

:)

 

But not for me...much too expensive stuff. There are things which costs more then hundred thousands of U.S. Dollars :music_whistling:

 

But I found a "very cheap" Touchscreen 22" TFT(5ms and 1920x1200). It costs "only" 800€ ;) Just type it into google and you will find it...

 

edit...very nice: http://www.force-dynamics.com/ Video:

:) Edited July 19, 2008 by Duke49th

[upyr1]

I'm intersted in the quality of the hmd's as well

[upyr1]

Your right, it needs two maybe three 'dots' per

 

Yes a real physical cockpit would be the best solution, particular for immersion as you mentioned. I feel however that its perhaps a very expensive route to follow considering the amount of switches, dials and knobs plus other hardware you would need for the project.

Another thing to consider is that DCS plan on modelling several aircraft with equal fidelity to the Black Shark, how compatible would a phyical cockpit be in this scenario?

Blaze1

Since building a physical Ka-50 cockpit would be out of the question

I was wondering how hard would it be for ED to incorperat support for a touch screen, it could work out decently.

[urze]

Since building a physical Ka-50 cockpit would be out of the question

I was wondering how hard would it be for ED to incorperat support for a touch screen, it could work out decently.

It is already done:

BlackShark with Touchscreen (middle screens are obvious in spanned mode -you don't need the left and right screen)

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6437645aBNbAA7S?autoWatch=true

 

and this could be also a solution,

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=31887

 

...to operate the V-cockpit without touching the keyboard.

I really believe that VR-Gloves (an invention of the nineties) are outdated when you look at the today possibilities closely.

[GGTharos]

I've seen it. Clunky and mostly a curiosity item.

[crime]

I think that the novint falcon is a way to go.

By the way, has any BS tester tried to run BS in stereoscopic?

Edited September 7, 2008 by crime

[urze]

I don't want to say that its useless, but every item should have a application.

Novint falcon - maybe good for 3D object/graphics manipulating but there are already professional solutions with a wider reach for more practical use out there.

sure its fun on a party (or on a fair ) but without a real functional application it becomes useless. I really don't believe that you will play a first person shooter with it longer than half an hour...

Edited September 7, 2008 by urze

[crime]

without a real functional application it becomes useless. I really don't believe that you will play a first person shooter with it longer than half an hour...

I think the same, but that device seems to fit specially well for a 3D cockpit manipulation, if supported by the software. And that haptics capability makes it really interesting, it would allow to feel the switches and levers.

[urze]

But with a device like this it would similar to 'touching things' by using a pencil. It's not the natural way u feel something. And I really doubt that when you are sitting in the 'Cockpit' your first intension is to fell the switches - you just want to 'feel' the workload of a real pilot and use the avionics in an effective and realistic way.

I believe ( and I'm very sure about that) that with todays given technology a touchscreen is the best tool for this task (and you get also a very natural feedback while touching it).

Edited September 7, 2008 by urze

[crime]

urze, you are right again. If you want to use the systems fast a touchscreen is optimum. I once had a touchscreen at work for some weeks and spent the hours thinking how great it would be for flight simulators. Unfortunately never had a chance to try.

 

What happens is that I have always been very attracted by virtual reality and all these kind of devices got me very excited thinking in their posibilities.

I was just thinking that the best part of a haptic device is that once you grab something in the cockpit the device *becomes* that thing. If it is a 2 positions slide switch, you could feel the initial resistance and then click!, the switch snaps. If it is a push button then it would be like click! clack! And levers, if it has detent positions and you have to displace laterally to be able to move it then you could feel how it is blocked till you do that lateral movement. And, so on....

 

I was thinking about all this and decided to reconnect to share it, and then I saw your post that opened my eyes. All these simply don't fit in a COMBAT flight simulator. But.... isn't it cool? :prop:

[upyr1]

any one ever tired a helmet mounted display- if so are they cool or just get you sick>

[Peyoteros]

Now I'll punch the hole in your cockpit with my mighty virtual glove, God knows what else I can do to you now, muahaha! You all better hide! :D cos I'm coming!

Edited September 8, 2008 by Peyoteros

[Peyoteros]

any one ever tired a helmet mounted display- if so are they cool or just get you sick>

 

do you expect me to wear a helmet inside my house? And the gloves? Virtual shoes would be awesome, to kick the butt in FPS...

Edited September 8, 2008 by Peyoteros