[ALREADY REPORTED]White Dots on All Air and Ground Units

[Hawkeye_UK]

Since the start of November, when they 'fixed' the night time issue of units having white dots (reflected moonlight) they have managed to break the game entirely by having units showing as a white dot during the day.

 

This is the single biggest problem in DCS right now and all PvP servers are broken because of it. It's as bad as having labels on almost and for the more diehard servers it has become unplayable. It is especially painful for servers such as DDCS that has player slung ground units that then show up like bright white lamps to be immediately dispatched by CAS platforms.

 

Air to Air engagements have become pointless.

 

CAS has been made for noobs, put the thing on the thing!

 

I did have a thread already that was closed however @BIGNEWY on discord asked that i create a new thread on the issue. (old thread with pics etc and explanation https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/digital-combat-simulator/dcs-world-2-5/bugs-and-problems-ai/general-questions-ac/271014-resolved-nighttime-visibility-excessive-15nm-white-dots-no-labels?view=stream).

 

I have real concerns on this issue as when questioned on discord the response i got back was that this was a "feature"? If the aim is to play with labels on and have no realistic combat environment then it has succeeded, if the aim is to have it more realistic then it's a game breaking step backwards. I hear quite often people have issues with spotting, reality check, its very hard in real life if the object is below you and past 6/7 miles out, especially over uneven terrain.

 

I also note that the original problem lasted from 2.5.6 release until the start of this month(9 months), the exact same issue for daytime flight cannot carry on for the same period surely, it is not acceptable. 3 weeks ago there was a response saying that there is a discussion with the Dev's? We need this to be reversed asap even if this means just reverting the code that brought the night time issue back (which we could get around as servers with having no moon).

 

Please can you make this an urgent hotfix, the game and its gameplay is utterly broken with this simple issue.

 

Thanks.

 

[Wiggy]

+1

 

I appreciate OpenBeta is a place to experiment but this is certainly a change that doesn’t work. A complete immersion killer.

[BIGNEWY]

thanks for the feedback I have added it to the report and the team are discussing it internally.

 

thank you

[Fri13]

This is the single biggest problem in DCS right now and all PvP servers are broken because of it.

 

The problem is that people run Open Beta in their servers, while they should really only use Stable branch for production quality servers.

ED should stop promoting Open Beta that much so people wouldn't need to feed their curiosities and fanboyism for given new airframe (like F-16) by requiring them to use a Open Beta.

 

This would fix the problem that people get annoyed about the new tested features and methods etc that should only be in the hands of those testers who are willing to install Open Beta side of a Stable version and know how to roll back the updates if needed to test something else if not otherwise accessible, and when they do not want to see problems switch to Stable for entertainment.

 

Air to Air engagements have become pointless.

 

Not just A-A, but as well A-G as you can spot every ground unit as same way. You have white dot on the terrain. But normally you can have a black dot there.

 

I have real concerns on this issue as when questioned on discord the response i got back was that this was a "feature"? If the aim is to play with labels on and have no realistic combat environment then it has succeeded, if the aim is to have it more realistic then it's a game breaking step backwards. I hear quite often people have issues with spotting, reality check, its very hard in real life if the object is below you and past 6/7 miles out, especially over uneven terrain.

 

Reality is that spotting something is extremely difficult, if not even impossible at all in the manners as in DCS. The problem is that the ground units are rendered objects in the DCS, while they should become almost transparent depending their background and movement. If there is a dark green vehicle middle of the bright yellow wheat field, then it will pop up like nothing if someone even looks at that field from any direction basically. But if that vehicle is moved next to, or inside a small tree island in that field, it becomes invisible. One can spot the trees, but not the vehicle from long ranges like even 1 km. If that vehicle is even camouflaged with few branches or a net by braking it shape, it becomes extremely difficult to spot even from 100 meters.

 

The rule of thumb is that if you are stationary, you will blend to the surroundings if you are at all similar color as the terrain. And that is basic 101 in the military that you will use colors that will blend with the terrain you are. So no bright red jacket when you go to somewhere. And movement will reveal you. Lights will reveal you. Your created strong shadow middle of flat terrain will reveal you. But all those are secondary after color, movement and shape.

 

And the problem is that people do not consider it fun if they have the realistic spotting difficulties. As they want to go out there and put "dot on the dot" and see it go off. And if they get challenges to find something, they get frustrated and first thing they do is that they come to blame the game being "unrealistic" instead even considering that maybe they have no idea how difficult it is to find people who primary mission is to blend and hide by any means necessary to the terrain so they can not be found?

As in military the information of enemy location, type and amount is critical for any mission. If you can not see the enemy, you can't fight them. If you don't know where enemy is, you can't go kill them.

 

It can sound silly but hiding 1000 men and 100 vehicles in a 1 km wide forest that observer is not able spot even from 100 meters while everyone can see the observer, is the purpose of the ground troops and totally done even when observer has a FLIR in their use to scan the view.

[Hawkeye_UK]

thanks for the feedback I have added it to the report and the team are discussing it internally.

 

thank you

 

Thanks Bignewy - however we got the same response a few weeks ago - we need some update on this position, not just that its being discussed internally, surely it doesn't take weeks for that discussion for what is a game breaking issue?

 

Please can you ask the dev's specifically either to roll back the code, or rectify with new - the game is unplayable.

[Hawkeye_UK]

 

"The problem is that people run Open Beta in their servers, while they should really only use Stable branch for production quality servers.

ED should stop promoting Open Beta that much so people wouldn't need to feed their curiosities and fanboyism for given new airframe (like F-16) by requiring them to use a Open Beta.

 

This would fix the problem that people get annoyed about the new tested features and methods etc that should only be in the hands of those testers who are willing to install Open Beta side of a Stable version and know how to roll back the updates if needed to test something else if not otherwise accessible, and when they do not want to see problems switch to Stable for entertainment."

 

---

 

Not true - stable is not trouble free, i could list out a while host of issues that are on stable yet are severely bugged.

 

So for example on stable we have had the original problem of the night lighting where units show as white dots all year since 2.5.6 went to stable branch.

 

The issue is minor issue's such as this, which has been caused by a minor change need a more rapid reaction from the dev team - not letting it sit for 9 months as per the original problem. I'm speculating that the new issue is from the sun and its reflection given that the exact same issue at night time was caused by the moon.

 

[Fri13]

 

Not true - stable is not trouble free, i could list out a while host of issues that are on stable yet are severely bugged.

 

As I say anyways (slipped out from this) is that the stable should only get the features that are problem free. It is slower paced process but offers better quality.

 

So for example on stable we have had the original problem of the night lighting where units show as white dots all year since 2.5.6 went to stable branch.

 

The issue is minor issue's such as this, which has been caused by a minor change need a more rapid reaction from the dev team - not letting it sit for 9 months as per the original problem.

 

"Release early. Release often. And listen to your customers"

 

That is how Open Beta should be done. No schedules for when the updates comes, they just get pushed when they get ready. We do not need overcome the ED internal testing, so no need to do daily updates or ASAP but few times a week would be good fastest pace. What comes to the stable branch, that could be the "once a month".

 

Now when the Open Beta is expected or even considered to be a entertainment ready for multiplayer and other gaming enjoyments, it will go just wrong as it is mixing the Open Beta with Stable, and Stable will get undermined to status where it get rarely updates and it will hang long time with bugs that shouldn't be there.

As well it is problematic that gamers try to use a software under development for their entertainment and then that leads to frustration when they can't have their wanted things working when they want. While the development branch should be more for those who want to participate software development and are ready to go full circle with the bug hunting, like comparing a real flight manual energy state values to the simulator or going through a emergency procedures and checking all the instruments values and behavior.

Now we have in the development branch people who make YouTube videos, try to have fun and fool around in Live Streams etc. All just depressing the work everyone is doing.

 

[BIGNEWY]

This issue has been reported, and I have tested a tweak internally, hopefully for the next patch.

 

Just to be clear, open beta is a public test build, we test in this build in the public.

 

 

thanks

Edited November 26, 2020 by BIGNEWY

[BIGNEWY]

Please keep on topic "White Dots on All Air and Ground Units"

 

 

[Flappie]

EDIT: MP sent.

[Hawkeye_UK]

Hi Flappie what does MP sent mean re your last post?

[Hawkeye_UK]

Thanks Big Newy, re testing in open beta absolutely get that and no worries. However are we saying that the internal testers passed this as a feature and acceptable for gameplay or they liked it, a concern if so.

 

Thanks for your efforts in testing the fix, fingers crossed it comes out this month so we can go back to playing DCS properly without cheat mode on lol.

[Flappie]

Hi Flappie what does MP sent mean re your last post?

Not much. I edited my post right after BN rightfully asked us to get back to topic, and then I sent my answer in MP.

[ChuckIV]

I fully agree - that being white dots do NOT belong on infantry FOR SURE!!!  I understand the white dots are a sun reflection, and that's GREAT for airplanes, but not small camouflaged ground units.  KEEP THE WHITE reflection dots for planes, but feel free to remove them for everything else.  I've tested the reflection white dots; they go away when in shade or when the sun is in the front of you.  This is very realistic - if you have the sun to your back, you would see white dots (reflections) of planes for sure.  Try it for yourself - put the sun to your back; you see white reflection dots.  Put the sun in front of you, and the planes disappear.  You got this correct DCS - keep this the way it is!! (for planes only).

 

ChuckIV

[Sr.]

Please get rid of this, so I can go back to using open beta.