VR Hardware Benchmark late 2020 - Ryzen 2000/5000 - 1080ti vs 3080 vs 6800XT

[exil]

On 12/25/2020 at 3:18 PM, JayRoc said:

We didnt pause the game, we startet the mission an then activated the autopilot.

After that we Alt+Tab out of the game and pushed the reset button once the start and end appeard.

 

The usage of the GPU is way different. (Bottom graph)

Do you see this behaviour in other games aswell?

Not sure if it was mentioned here: did you delete the shader cache?

 

 

 

 

So, here are my results with my 6900XT:

Since i only have a Reverb G1 i had to adjust the resolution manually to match with yours.

 

First bench was at SS 100%. The main result here is that i am really not able to get your 70fps of your test shown on page 1.

 

 

Second Bench was at SS 76%. Results here are indeed matching with your test.

 

Somehow, with SS 100% the GPU distribution is somewhat strange. While a great amount of GPU usage is in the 80 - 90% range, also a lot is down between 0 - 20% range. That is merely what i mean with it is shuttling or swinging between high and low usage. 

 

I try to higher the power limit of the card and will test again.

 

@JayRoc What steps did you do to OC your 6800XT?

[Hiromachi]

1 hour ago, exil said:

Somehow, with SS 100% the GPU distribution is somewhat strange. While a great amount of GPU usage is in the 80 - 90% range, also a lot is down between 0 - 20% range. That is merely what i mean with it is shuttling or swinging between high and low usage. 

This. I see exactly the same. At default resolution of G2 the GPU usage is inconsistent and fluctuates. 

 

I did OC my 6800XT to 2650 Mhz, turned on SAM, put Power Limit at 115 % and increased VRAM clocks to 2120 Mhz. Gains in DCS were minuscule, I got closer to 60 FPS. But nowhere near JayRocks 70 FPS.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Hiromachi

[JayRoc]

For the 6800xt OC we did 115% powertarget and RAM to 2100Mhz.

My brother got a hold of a 6900xt we will bench that one aswell.

[Hiromachi]

Ags has 6900XT so we can all keep comparing. I also dont think 6800XT would be that different. Less streaming processors but that is not an issue here, lack of memory bandwidth is. 

[exil]

I did it! I hit the 70fps. Screenshots coming later. 

 

I removed all Programms like wmr for steamvr and reinstalled it. Then I deinstalled my USB devices in steamvr and I used ddu to deinstal Nvidia drivers. Then I set my power limit to 115%.

 

Edit: I also opted in for betas in steamvr and lgk version of wmr. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by exil

[JayRoc]

The 6900XT runs way faster with the Pimax 8KX compared to the 6800XT.

With the G2 havent compared it yet.

[Hiromachi]

1 minute ago, exil said:

I did it! I hit the 70fps. Screenshots coming later. 

 

I removed all Programms like wmr for steamvr and reinstalled it. Then I deinstalled my USB devices in steamvr and I used ddu to deinstal Nvidia drivers. Then I set my power limit to 115%.

 

Edit: I also opted in for betas in steamvr and lgk version of wmr. 

 

Describe the steps please, I'd like to follow and try all that as well to see the difference. Just for reference please also post Adrenalin settings (since I presume for benching you used ingame VR preset). 

[exil]

1 hour ago, Hiromachi said:

Describe the steps please, I'd like to follow and try all that as well to see the difference. Just for reference please also post Adrenalin settings (since I presume for benching you used ingame VR preset). 

Basically, look at that last post and follow the instructions written in green:

Next, download ddu Uninstaller if you haven't already. 

I didn't change much in adrenaline. Just used the OC preset als "global setting" and then hit the game. 

 

The downside of it: I measured fps with reprojection off. 

 

When I then turned it "always on" in another mission, it was the same problem as before. Fps dropped down to 30fps even where with reprojection turned off my pfs never dropped below 50fps.

[Hiromachi]

Sooo I got you're 70 FPS with default 6800XT settings and VR preset in DCS. But there is a caveat. I can obtain those only when Alt+tab'ed and window is Out of Focus.

 

Basically I repeated all your steps save for DDU'ing Nvidia drivers since I swap those GPUs back and forth for testing. It shouldn't make a difference as Nvidia processes dont run in the background anyway. I switched to SteamVR beta and WMR for SteamVR lkg. Not a thing changed:

Spoiler

fpsVR Report:
App: DCS HMD: HP Reverb Virtual Reality Headset G20 (90.000 Hz, IPD 63.3)
GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT (27.20.14501.33001) CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor
Delivered fps: 58.07  Duration: 2.7min.
GPU Frametimes:
Median: 11.5 ms
99th percentile: 15.5 ms
99.9th percentile: 15.9 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 30%
CPU frametime:
Median: 8.2 ms
99th percentile: 13.9 ms
99.9th percentile: 16.4 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 96.9%
Reprojection Ratio: 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Dropped frames: 0 or 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Max. SteamVR SS: 204%
Render resolution per eye: 3160x3092(by SteamVR settings, Max.) (HMD driver recommended: 2213x2165)

Although resolution scaled back, so I had to manually move the slider to 204 % to get 3160x3092 (which is my default one). But thats not a problem.

 

Now I kept switching windows, repeating trials and than I noticed something ... I had more FPS when window was out of focus than when I clicked on DCS and was "in focus". 

Window "in-focus":

Spoiler

 

Window Out of Focus:

Spoiler

And FPS result:

Spoiler

fpsVR Report:
App: DCS HMD: HP Reverb Virtual Reality Headset G20 (90.000 Hz, IPD 63.3)
GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT (27.20.14501.33001) CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor
Delivered fps: 69.57  Duration: 2.6min.
GPU Frametimes:
Median: 11.7 ms
99th percentile: 16 ms
99.9th percentile: 16.6 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 23.3%
CPU frametime:
Median: 7.8 ms
99th percentile: 12.9 ms
99.9th percentile: 16.3 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 97.7%
Reprojection Ratio: 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Dropped frames: 0 or 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Max. SteamVR SS: 204%
Render resolution per eye: 3160x3092(by SteamVR settings, Max.) (HMD driver recommended: 2213x2165)

 

 

I must be crazy but why would DCS draw less resources from PC "in-focus" than "Out of Focus" ? Look at CPU usage, it drops from 5.8 % to 3.4 % and GPU usage, from 75-83 % to 55 - 60 %. This is the reason why I cant get OPs result. 

I dont know whether this is SteamVR issue or DCS issue but its clear that in either case, but especially "in-focus" DCS is not using system resources properly. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Hiromachi

[exil]

42 minutes ago, Hiromachi said:

Sooo I got you're 70 FPS with default 6800XT settings and VR preset in DCS. But there is a caveat. I can obtain those only when Alt+tab'ed and window is Out of Focus.

 

Basically I repeated all your steps save for DDU'ing Nvidia drivers since I swap those GPUs back and forth for testing. It shouldn't make a difference as Nvidia processes dont run in the background anyway. I switched to SteamVR beta and WMR for SteamVR lkg. Not a thing changed:

  Reveal hidden contents

fpsVR Report:
App: DCS HMD: HP Reverb Virtual Reality Headset G20 (90.000 Hz, IPD 63.3)
GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT (27.20.14501.33001) CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor
Delivered fps: 58.07  Duration: 2.7min.
GPU Frametimes:
Median: 11.5 ms
99th percentile: 15.5 ms
99.9th percentile: 15.9 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 30%
CPU frametime:
Median: 8.2 ms
99th percentile: 13.9 ms
99.9th percentile: 16.4 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 96.9%
Reprojection Ratio: 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Dropped frames: 0 or 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Max. SteamVR SS: 204%
Render resolution per eye: 3160x3092(by SteamVR settings, Max.) (HMD driver recommended: 2213x2165)

Although resolution scaled back, so I had to manually move the slider to 204 % to get 3160x3092 (which is my default one). But thats not a problem.

 

Now I kept switching windows, repeating trials and than I noticed something ... I had more FPS when window was out of focus than when I clicked on DCS and was "in focus". 

Window "in-focus":

  Hide contents

 

Window Out of Focus:

  Hide contents

And FPS result:

  Hide contents

fpsVR Report:
App: DCS HMD: HP Reverb Virtual Reality Headset G20 (90.000 Hz, IPD 63.3)
GPU: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT (27.20.14501.33001) CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor
Delivered fps: 69.57  Duration: 2.6min.
GPU Frametimes:
Median: 11.7 ms
99th percentile: 16 ms
99.9th percentile: 16.6 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 23.3%
CPU frametime:
Median: 7.8 ms
99th percentile: 12.9 ms
99.9th percentile: 16.3 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 97.7%
Reprojection Ratio: 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Dropped frames: 0 or 0.0% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Max. SteamVR SS: 204%
Render resolution per eye: 3160x3092(by SteamVR settings, Max.) (HMD driver recommended: 2213x2165)

 

 

I must be crazy but why would DCS draw less resources from PC "in-focus" than "Out of Focus" ? Look at CPU usage, it drops from 5.8 % to 3.4 % and GPU usage, from 75-83 % to 55 - 60 %. This is the reason why I cant get OPs result. 

I dont know whether this is SteamVR issue or DCS issue but its clear that in either case, but especially "in-focus" DCS is not using system resources properly. 

 

 

I really just noticed the same! I am able to hit the 70fps without any problems when i do not see the 2d image of my VR headset! This is crazy! You can see it instantly when opening another tab which overlays the 2d VR image. The 2d image has never affected anything so far, but i could imagine that this is also the cause for my reprojections issues. So how the hell we get rid of that?

 

And I would love to know, if that occurs with nvidia cards too? Maybe it's not an dcs but an adrenaline thing?

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by exil

[Hiromachi]

Absolutely no idea mate. And I'm not sure if its 2d image itself, or the fact that DCS when you shift focus back to the App reduces the usage of GPU and CPU resources. Perhaps its a matter of incorrect resource allocation.

 

As a matter of fact on my system there is at least a few % more that could hold 70 FPS almost locked when Alttabbed. But why on earth when I get back to DCS is usage of resources so ... bad. On flat screen GPU usage is 99 %. 

Is it DCS ? Is it SteamVR ? What controls resource allocation when playing DCS in VR ?

 

I'm going to bother @Flappie and @BIGNEWY because they are the closest we can get to devs

Edited December 27, 2020 by Hiromachi

[exil]

Try'd it. You are right. It's just a matter of alt tabbing out or not. 

 

I'm trying to find something within adrenaline now, that allocates the resources. Maybe it's just a checkbox or something. The good thing is: the power is obviously there. It just need to be allocated the right way! 

[Hiromachi]

Yes, tldr is that Radeon can be faster than Nvidia. And can reach 70 FPS despite such a high resolution. But its a matter of forcing DCS / SteamVR to use all resources properly.

 

I still need to workout reprojection and text warping though. Perhaps its time to start making tickets for AMD / Microsoft / Valve to get their attention. Our problem is that we are niche of a niche and if we wont be loud enough nobody will care about VR folks. 

[exil]

36 minutes ago, Hiromachi said:

Yes, tldr is that Radeon can be faster than Nvidia. And can reach 70 FPS despite such a high resolution. But its a matter of forcing DCS / SteamVR to use all resources properly.

 

I still need to workout reprojection and text warping though. Perhaps its time to start making tickets for AMD / Microsoft / Valve to get their attention. Our problem is that we are niche of a niche and if we wont be loud enough nobody will care about VR folks. 

I tried reprojection in "out of window" mode. It works better, but still dropping below 45fps with around 16ms gpu frametimes and green cpu frametimes. 

 

I hear your fears. 

 

I would at first try another game to see if it happens there too. But the only thing I have here besides of DCS is a VR benchmark program from steam.

 

Also thinking of pulling out my 3090 and see, if that behavior is also happening with Nvidia cards. 

[Hiromachi]

Reprojection works perfect with 3080 I have. Its smooth even above and below specified FPS, except when you really dive below 30 FPS which generally does not happen.

 

But GPU usage thing is worth checking. Shame I didnt try that out last night as I've spent 5 hours testing 3080 in VR online. One thing is though that FPS VR indicated a much more stable usage of GPU than it does with Radeon.

[exil]

The point is, that reprojection also works fine with the Radeon. 

But as i understand, as long as you're below 11.1ms you are able to reach stable 90fps. Between 11.1 and 22.2ms you should have something between 90 - 45fps. This is the point where reprojection kicks in and adds synthetic frames in order to maintain the smoothness. Only when you are above 22.2ms (<45fps) the whole system isn't capable of maintaining stable 45fps anymore. In my situation everything up to 14ms let's me maintain 45fps. If frametimes go higher (e.g. 15ms), i'll see something of around 35 - 40fps and if frametimes increase (lets say 16 - 17ms) my fps gets locked at 30fps and reprojection isn't smooth anymore.

 

I wonder if the RTX behaves in the same manner or as it should be as decribed above.

 

As for the GPU usage: Yes, it has to do with the allocation we spoke about. I see a lot more GPU usage in the upper region (70 - 95%) when using the "alt-tab mode". Otherwise GPU usage is more of a linear allocation from (20 - 95%). The real problem now is to find out, if it's DCS, AMD or Steam. And even if we now, what causes the problem, will they investigate or do something to fix it?

[Hiromachi]

Not on my side. On my side re-projection or at least smoothness that it is supposed to provide are not working correctly. If GPU goes below / above 45 FPS smoothness decreases noticeably. I just feel around me that picture is not smooth. I did not have similar experience with Nvidia. It held 45 FPS firm and smoothness was perfect for VR flying. 

But you might be right about details, I havent tried to look at it that way. 

 

Well thats why I hope Bignewy / Flappie will respond. Users should not be asked to deal with this kind of problems. I know that VR users playing with Ampere / Navi architectures are spearhead of VR crowd, but we cant replace developers and desperately need their assistance. 

[Flappie]

I'm sorry to disappoint you but I don't work at ED. I have no link to devs, only BN has. And since I don't use VR, I don't know much about it.

 

Your Alt+Tab trick rings a bell. It's not the first time I read this. I'll look into previous posts to try and find a solution.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Flappie
seen your answer about Nvidia Share in the other thread

[exil]

2 minutes ago, Flappie said:

I'm sorry to disappoint you but I don't work at ED. I have no link to devs, only BN has. And since I don't use VR, I don't know much about it.

 

Your Alt+Tab trick rings a bell. It's not the first time I read this. I'll look into previous posts to try and find a solution. In the meantime, have you disabled Nvidia Share like I asked you to?

Thanks for looking it up! Any help is highly appreciated! 

[Hiromachi]

Oh I thought because of DCS Ground Crew ... alright, no worries and thanks for stopping by Flappie  

[Hiromachi]

3 hours ago, exil said:

The point is, that reprojection also works fine with the Radeon. 

But as i understand, as long as you're below 11.1ms you are able to reach stable 90fps. Between 11.1 and 22.2ms you should have something between 90 - 45fps. This is the point where reprojection kicks in and adds synthetic frames in order to maintain the smoothness. Only when you are above 22.2ms (<45fps) the whole system isn't capable of maintaining stable 45fps anymore. In my situation everything up to 14ms let's me maintain 45fps. If frametimes go higher (e.g. 15ms), i'll see something of around 35 - 40fps and if frametimes increase (lets say 16 - 17ms) my fps gets locked at 30fps and reprojection isn't smooth anymore.

So I turned on reprojection indicator in SteamVR and put FPS VR indication as close to it as possible, so all information are visible exactly as I see it in VR. I see it differently as mentioned above.

First

With reprojection off there is obvious lack of smoothness though image is not stuttery, its just not ... smooth. 

 

When I turn on reprojection issues appear, first the mentioned above text warping:

 

Here is MiG-21 flying on Caucasus and Syria (I'm sorry if recording is not clear, I was using phone and trying to fly, keep controller to display data in one hand and somehow keep phone to record all that in the other. I thought of using phone to record image from lense instead of anything from desktop as that would be exactly as I experience it.

For me reprojection switches off or is GPU bound at much lower frametimes than 22 ms:

 

It even turns off at 15 ms when I tried on Syria:

 

Except when fixed at 45 FPS / around 11 ms (green GPU bar) it is also not as smooth as when I was using RTX 3080. RTX worked much better at holding that spot and even when framerate / frametime went up or down, smoothness was unaffected. On 6800XT smoothness is noticeably reduced for me.  

[exil]

29 minutes ago, Hiromachi said:

So I turned on reprojection indicator in SteamVR and put FPS VR indication as close to it as possible, so all information are visible exactly as I see it in VR. I see it differently as mentioned above.

First

With reprojection off there is obvious lack of smoothness though image is not stuttery, its just not ... smooth. 

 

When I turn on reprojection issues appear, first the mentioned above text warping:

 

Here is MiG-21 flying on Caucasus and Syria (I'm sorry if recording is not clear, I was using phone and trying to fly, keep controller to display data in one hand and somehow keep phone to record all that in the other. I thought of using phone to record image from lense instead of anything from desktop as that would be exactly as I experience it.

For me reprojection switches off or is GPU bound at much lower frametimes than 22 ms:

 

It even turns off at 15 ms when I tried on Syria:

 

Except when fixed at 45 FPS / around 11 ms (green GPU bar) it is also not as smooth as when I was using RTX 3080. RTX worked much better at holding that spot and even when framerate / frametime went up or down, smoothness was unaffected. On 6800XT smoothness is noticeably reduced for me.  

 

Thank you for the insights! I now know what you mean with text warping. I can confirm, that I also have it, but it doesn't bother me much. 

 

When I just turn on reprojection it is also not smooth for me. But usually if you would force it on, it usually remains smooth unless you don't hit more than 22.2ms. In the steamvr menu you can set it to 'force - always on' (hope that's the right translation from German). 

Edited December 27, 2020 by exil

[Hiromachi]

SteamVR settings menu controls motion smoothness which is not the same as reprojection. Reprojection can be changed in files or from within SteamVR Dashboard. As for smoothness, I have mine set to enable. I will try setting it to Force-always On and see if it changes anything. 

 

Ok, glad we're on the same page with warping. I saw this warping also on a gunsight pipper when flying P-51 over Normandy the other day so it can get annoying and should be removed. 

 

In any case, I have reported issues to SteamVR support and await their response. Will later look for a proper place to reach out to AMD.

[exil]

You're right. I meant motion smoothness. But if I set this one to force - on it remains pretty smooth. Let me know what you think. 

 

As for warping: I didn't notice any of it in game so far, but will have a closer look. In that case it would annoy me too! 

 

Good to know, I hope they will at least have a look at it! Thanks! 

[Hiromachi]

Motion smoothing doesnt work for me unfortunately. It still consistently sits at around 60 FPS, going down / up depending on fight. And when frametime goes up above 14 ms, motion reprojection just doesnt work (red indicator appears).