[SD-10] SMS target size determines active seeker on distance

[uboats]

Months ago, we implemented the target size feature in SMS for SD-10,

It didn't take effect at the beginning, therefore, we didn't mention it in our changelog.

 

Today, after MP test, I found it WORKS!

 

the setting should be for seeker on distance

you can still try this feature and set the target size based on your tactics:

SML: 12km (in my MP test, rwr warning around 11km)

MID: 18km

LAR: 24km (in my MP test, rwr warning around 15km)

 

Hope this will bring more positive changes to MP BVR combat

enjoy

 

BTW, currently, the loft of sd-10 is overridden by 120 scheme, and ED has internally implemented the port that player can turn on/off loft based on customized condition. I've tested it and verified it.

 

 

[BlackPixxel]

I wonder if the detection range of the missile seeker is modelled?

 

Otherwise players could set it to large to benefit from earlier active guidance, even when engaging fighter sized targets.

[uboats]

in my understanding, this is more for seeker on distance.

whether it can lock target is determined by many facts.

i didn't check the scheme file, so cannot tell whether ED implements the detection range based on target rcs/size etc.

[D4n]

Quote

currently, the loft of sd-10 is overridden by 120 scheme,

Does this have any effect on this big and frustrating issue?

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/246848-wrong-sd-10-position-data-export-using-tacview-as-proof/

[uboats]

4 minutes ago, DanielNL said:

Does this have any effect on this big and frustrating issue?

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/246848-wrong-sd-10-position-data-export-using-tacview-as-proof/

no, the track of sd-10 seems related to dcs core. after launch, the sd-10 will be completely controlled by dcs core based on scheme.

[sylkhan]

1 hour ago, uboats said:

Today, after MP test, I found it WORKS!

Great, i will test it today.

 

1 hour ago, uboats said:

SML: 12km (in my MP test, around 11km)

MID: 18km

LAR: 24km (in my MP test, around 15km)

Can these values be adjust in the furtur to be 12, 18, 24KM ?

 

And for the fun, i was pleased, to see "Km", it's refreshing

Does that mean that we will have a chinese cockpit version of the Chengdu "fierce dragon" in the futur, in metric system ?

 

 

[uboats]

It’s preset values, cannot be changed or modified.

 

no CHN cockpit.

[sylkhan]

17 minutes ago, uboats said:

It’s preset values, cannot be changed or modified.

I understand, it's a shame.

 

19 minutes ago, uboats said:

no CHN cockpit.

Aaargh, you kill me :), but no pb, i start to be used to this stupid imperial system 

[Zhivuchiy]

I wonder, how can I verify that this feature is working? If I shoot at the same target from the same distance with target size set to different values, should I see different TOAs? 

[GGTharos]

On 12/22/2020 at 6:13 AM, uboats said:

in my understanding, this is more for seeker on distance.

whether it can lock target is determined by many facts.

i didn't check the scheme file, so cannot tell whether ED implements the detection range based on target rcs/size etc.

 

Hi @uboats,

 

Everything below IMHO:

  I personally don't believe it affect the seeker active distance (it may but my point is that this is not the important part) but rather something that DCS doesn't model:  It affects the fuze gain settings.   So, if you use 'SML' on a 'LARGE' target, the missile could proximity fuze too far to do any damage since the gains would be set high in order to fuze against a more difficult to detect target.

Similarly, using 'LARGE' vs a 'SMALL' target might cause the proximity fuze to not detonate at all.

Generally the only time you would touch this setting is if you're attacking a cruise missile (SML) or stealth fighter, or a B-52 (LAR).    It would not be a setting that controls when you get an RWR warning as you need a certain amount of minimum time to ensure that your target is in the missile's capture basket.

 

Obviously if the missile achieves a direct impact none of this matters.

Edited March 20, 2021 by GGTharos

[Blinky.ben]

7 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

Hi @uboats,

 

Everything blow IMHO:

  I personally don't believe it affect the seeker active distance (it may but my point is that this is not the important part) but rather something that DCS doesn't model:  It affects the fuze gain settings.   So, if you use 'SML' on a 'LARGE' target, the missile could proximity fuze too far to do any damage since the gains would be set high in order to fuze against a more difficult to detect target.

Similarly, using 'LARGE' vs a 'SMALL' target might cause the proximity fuze to not detonate at all.

Generally the only time you would touch this setting is if you're attacking a cruise missile (SML) or stealth fighter, or a B-52 (LAR).    It would not be a setting that controls when you get an RWR warning as you need a certain amount of minimum time to ensure that your target is in the missile's capture basket.

 

Obviously if the missile achieves a direct impact none of this matters.

This is interesting, I always figured it was just it would pickup a bigger target further away then a small target so it goes active further away.

[GGTharos]

It can, and there may be reasons to do it but there are also reasons not to do it.   You can go cheapshot/husky/pitbull earlier on a larger target, but then those targets are usually not slinging missiles are you so there's no need to - but, maybe their escorts would so if you can extend your cheapshot tactics a bit it's good.   Maybe tactics against a large group gain an advantage from a slightly larger autonomous distance also.

 

On the other hand, cheapshot/husky tactics are more susceptible to ECM/CM, and having more time in-flight with the radar on requires more power consumption.   And the corollary is that reducing the range for a small target is that you will miss out on seeker search opportunities (less time to perform searches).

 

The fuze definitely needs to know that your target is unusual with respect to its default target detection settings.

Edited March 20, 2021 by GGTharos

[uboats]

On 3/19/2021 at 11:08 AM, GGTharos said:

 

Hi @uboats,

 

Everything below IMHO:

  I personally don't believe it affect the seeker active distance (it may but my point is that this is not the important part) but rather something that DCS doesn't model:  It affects the fuze gain settings.   So, if you use 'SML' on a 'LARGE' target, the missile could proximity fuze too far to do any damage since the gains would be set high in order to fuze against a more difficult to detect target.

Similarly, using 'LARGE' vs a 'SMALL' target might cause the proximity fuze to not detonate at all.

Generally the only time you would touch this setting is if you're attacking a cruise missile (SML) or stealth fighter, or a B-52 (LAR).    It would not be a setting that controls when you get an RWR warning as you need a certain amount of minimum time to ensure that your target is in the missile's capture basket.

 

Obviously if the missile achieves a direct impact none of this matters.

 

Checked with pilot before, the setting is related to seeker pitbull distance. no sure about how it affect the fuze

[GGTharos]

That's fair.   My information is from some weapon document, but not for SD-10 obviously.

[[VFA-106] Glacier]

On 3/21/2021 at 8:40 PM, uboats said:

Checked with pilot before, the setting is related to seeker pitbull distance. no sure about how it affect the fuze

 

Does Small/Medium/Large refer to the amount of time before going pitbull or after? 

[Zhivuchiy]

24.03.2021 в 17:09, 16AGR Glacier сказал:

 

Does Small/Medium/Large refer to the amount of time before going pitbull or after? 

SML: 12km (in my MP test, around 11km)

MID: 18km

LAR: 24km (in my MP test, around 15km)

 

Distance from missile to target when missile goes pitull.

[[VFA-106] Glacier]

Excellent! Thank you!

[Lynnux]

I've read that in case of the AMRAAM the range to activate the seeker in case of small (=small RCS) targets is 5 km.

 

So obviously this setting is used to:

- increase the probabilty that the missile locks onto the correct / intended target (setting = small)

- increase the probability that the missile locks onto the target at all (stealth target, small setting)

- reduce the time until the missile seeker is activated (targets with large RCS / only enemies in the target area, setting = large). Otherwise the seeker activation range could always be 5 km

 

Another possibilty to increase precision would be to still guide the missile via datalink after the seeker has been activated (in case it's not able to lock it immediately).

[Lymark]

@uboatsIt seems that target size no longer affects the pitbull distance anymore. In both of my SP&MP testing, SD-10 always pitbull at ~11nm regardless of the setting.

[Tinchus2009]

Is this updated information? target size IS or IS NOT working?

[FlankerFan35]

On 2/9/2023 at 9:37 AM, Lymark said:

@uboatsIt seems that target size no longer affects the pitbull distance anymore. In both of my SP&MP testing, SD-10 always pitbull at ~11nm regardless of the setting.

I'm having same experience I believe.

[uboats]

it's better to provide trk to show and report in DCS's bug subforum.

we can just call the seeker active distance API to set the distance. but how it works, it's in DCS core.

Edited April 12, 2023 by uboats