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Jester is able to spot SAM launch from far angle WHILE he focusses on operating the radar (flipping switches)...

D4n

By D4n
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D4n

D4n

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Please implement Jester to not be able to spot low-angle SAM-launches while he's focussing on the operating radar (flipping switches. For example please add 5 seconds inability to spot low SAMs after each radar-input of him, that would be more realistic)...

Jester is just waaay too OP currently on PvP servers, it's no fun anymore to user Stingers in 1st person view (CombinedArms module) to even think about launching at players in Tomcats, when Jester has like 3 sets of eyes/6 Mk1 eyeballs to spot anything even at a steep angle below the tomcat......

 

I even ran the .miz 5 times (from ME, not "fly again" button!) to ensure that HB didn't implement a randomizer for Jesters ability to spot SAMs, but that instead, Jester currently sees every single one of these SAM launches.

 

5.trk 4.trk 3.trk 2.trk 1.trk

Edited by DanielNL
DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

captain_dalan

captain_dalan

Posted
Posted

Spotting might be OP, but you should see him getting stuck on IFF-ing hostiles when AWG-9 drops a lock. If had a penny for every time i had to restart the radar just to get him to work the bloody thing half competently then what he is supposed to, i'd be a rich man. I'd trade Jester for a human RIO any day of the week, despite the inability to detect launches from 20 miles out. I agree though, he shouldn't be able to eyeball them while working the radar, unless they already show up on sensors (RWR or TCS). It has never happened to me though, not yet. But then again, i never bomb stuff in the F-14, so who knows.....

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack

Nealius

Nealius

Posted
Posted

Ya'll are lucky he spots SAM launches at your aircraft at all. For me he's constantly calling out missiles fired at other aircraft or missiles that don't even exist.

D4n

D4n

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On 1/3/2021 at 6:12 AM, captain_dalan said:

I'd trade Jester for a human RIO any day of the week

why "would", not "will" ? Do you play on PvP servers? 🙂

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

Dragon1-1

Dragon1-1

Posted
Posted

AI, in DCS, in general has far too good SA. Try flying the MiG-19 with an AI wingman. Despite the fact its RWR amounts to a box that beeps or not depending on whether something is illuminating you from the general direction of your tail, not only do they know the clock direction, they also can tell whether it's a mud spike or not. I think the issue is that they were coded either for an A-10, with its MWS and full RWR, or as far back as LOMAC, which didn't care about such things.

 

I think that ED should take a good look at their AI SA, so that they're not all-seeing, especially in older aircraft, and open up ways to customize it. Jester seems to be using the same algorithm, so that would help here, too.

wadman

wadman

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

AI, in DCS, in general has far too good SA. Try flying the MiG-19 with an AI wingman. Despite the fact its RWR amounts to a box that beeps or not depending on whether something is illuminating you from the general direction of your tail, not only do they know the clock direction, they also can tell whether it's a mud spike or not. I think the issue is that they were coded either for an A-10, with its MWS and full RWR, or as far back as LOMAC, which didn't care about such things.

 

I think that ED should take a good look at their AI SA, so that they're not all-seeing, especially in older aircraft, and open up ways to customize it. Jester seems to be using the same algorithm, so that would help here, too.

Agreed - Also, why does the Ai start dropping chaff as soon as I fire a Phoenix in TWS when they would not be aware of the launch until it switches to active homing?  That seems to be a pretty big issue that should be fixed as it's not realistic at all.

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captain_dalan

captain_dalan

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2021 at 11:08 AM, DanielNL said:

why "would", not "will" ? Do you play on PvP servers? 🙂

I don't fly regularly or often enough to get a RIO. The mates i usually fly with (when i finally get to do some MP) don't fly the F-14 at all. And flying with a RIO is generally not something you tend to do with random people. It's not that the random guys don't do better then Jester, they do (i flew with a couple who just popped in and allowed them in during a session), it's just that the logistics and the regularity of the process become.....complicated. 😞

17 hours ago, wadman said:

Agreed - Also, why does the Ai start dropping chaff as soon as I fire a Phoenix in TWS when they would not be aware of the launch until it switches to active homing?  That seems to be a pretty big issue that should be fixed as it's not realistic at all.

Or flares for that matter.....on a supposedly silent fox 2, with no smoke.....

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack

D4n

D4n

Posted
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Posted
2 hours ago, captain_dalan said:

it's just that the logistics and the regularity of the process become.....complicated. 😞

Which "logistics" ? 🤔

Also, your "modules in waiting" signature needs updating 😬 F-14A is out 😛 (unless you, like me, wait for the patch that actually causes realistic full in-flight engine-flameout which requires full engine-relight procedure 😈 that would be the long awaited F-14 tax-payer-saving challenge for us 😉)

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

captain_dalan

captain_dalan

Posted
Posted
On 1/6/2021 at 1:46 AM, DanielNL said:

Which "logistics" ? 🤔

Also, your "modules in waiting" signature needs updating 😬 F-14A is out 😛 (unless you, like me, wait for the patch that actually causes realistic full in-flight engine-flameout which requires full engine-relight procedure 😈 that would be the long awaited F-14 tax-payer-saving challenge for us 😉)

Logistics like managing time zones, using external software to communicate, or you know......finding a RIO 😄 
Seriously, i got invited to a squadron recently, and checking their roster, it seams like on average only 20-25% of the people that do the F-14 there are RIO's. And that's a squadron. Which means people generally more dedicated and versatile then the average dude out there.

Ah....yes...... the signature! It does indeed! If only this new interface ED implemented would allow me! Heck, the signature doesn't even display on different browsers 😛

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache, F4U Corsair, WWII Assets Pack

  • 1 month later...
D4n

D4n

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 1/1/2021 at 7:17 PM, DanielNL said:

Please implement Jester to not be able to spot low-angle SAM-launches while he's focussing on the operating radar (flipping switches. For example please add 5 seconds inability to spot low SAMs after each radar-input of him, that would be more realistic)...

Jester is just waaay too OP currently on PvP servers, it's no fun anymore to user Stingers in 1st person view (CombinedArms module) to even think about launching at players in Tomcats, when Jester has like 3 sets of eyes/6 Mk1 eyeballs to spot anything even at a steep angle below the tomcat......

 

I even ran the .miz 5 times (from ME, not "fly again" button!) to ensure that HB didn't implement a randomizer for Jesters ability to spot SAMs, but that instead, Jester currently sees every single one of these SAM launches.

Well, Heatblur? Please reply/post a statement within the next 2 weeks please. Ok, more time then, within the next 3 months please.

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

Skysurfer

Skysurfer

Posted
Posted

Yeah I can agree with that. Maybe limit his spotting ability to like 10nm or less because it is 1) fairly annoying and 2) rather unrealistic for him to see all launched missiles around him and even below the aircraft. I'd much rather have him IFF and lock stuff correctly. 

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D4n

D4n

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And that would then hopefully also increase the rate of multicrewed F-14s on PvP servers

  • Like 1
DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

Naquaii

Naquaii

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/1/2021 at 7:17 PM, DanielNL said:

Please implement Jester to not be able to spot low-angle SAM-launches while he's focussing on the operating radar (flipping switches. For example please add 5 seconds inability to spot low SAMs after each radar-input of him, that would be more realistic)...

Jester is just waaay too OP currently on PvP servers, it's no fun anymore to user Stingers in 1st person view (CombinedArms module) to even think about launching at players in Tomcats, when Jester has like 3 sets of eyes/6 Mk1 eyeballs to spot anything even at a steep angle below the tomcat......

 

I even ran the .miz 5 times (from ME, not "fly again" button!) to ensure that HB didn't implement a randomizer for Jesters ability to spot SAMs, but that instead, Jester currently sees every single one of these SAM launches.

 

5.trk 54.98 kB · 8 downloads 4.trk 59.1 kB · 5 downloads 3.trk 54.11 kB · 5 downloads 2.trk 62.19 kB · 7 downloads 1.trk 56.14 kB · 6 downloads

 

 

What you are asking for makes no sense as it has been implemented from day 1. He does not have 360/360 vision all around him and when he is operating the radar he is looking down into the cockpit and timing has also been implemented for how long it takes to scan the sky around him. This is modelled after SME feedback and how they were trained IRL to scan their surroundings, especially if over hostile territory. In this regard Jester is probably much closer to reality than the average human RIO in DCS.

 

That said a rework of what missiles he reports has been on our list for a while as we agree that he currently reports too many missiles as he has more difficulty discerning which missiles that directly affects his own aircraft than a real RIO would have.

Edited by Naquaii
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D4n

D4n

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19 hours ago, Naquaii said:

 

What you are asking for makes no sense as it has been implemented from day 1. He does not have 360/360 vision all around him and when he is operating the radar he is looking down into the cockpit and timing has also been implemented for how long it takes to scan the sky around him. This is modelled after SME feedback and how they were trained IRL to scan their surroundings, especially if over hostile territory. In this regard Jester is probably much closer to reality than the average human RIO in DCS.

 

That said a rework of what missiles he reports has been on our list for a while as we agree that he currently reports too many missiles as he has more difficulty discerning which missiles that directly affects his own aircraft than a real RIO would have.

 

Ok. It's just that for spotting that super low angle launch, the RIO would have to lean very very far to the left.

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 4060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

Naquaii

Naquaii

Posted
Posted
On 2/16/2021 at 1:26 PM, DanielNL said:

Ok. It's just that for spotting that super low angle launch, the RIO would have to lean very very far to the left.

 

I'll forward it to the right guy to have a look at the angles as well as the missiles in general then. But rest assured, Jester is not able to look at multiple locations at the same time! 🙂

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