Do we have a Mig-29K?

[Top Jockey]

12 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Even the first MiG-29K version had a digital fly-by-wire flight control system and the center of gravity was moved further back for "relaxed stability".

 

Very good.

 

Those characteristics should give the 'K' variant, the BFM qualities I would have like to see in the 'A' variant right from the start, as an all time Fulcrum enthusiast.

So I hope for even better turning performance.

 

As, with the more I researched about MIG-29A (the 9.12), the more I felt that it was something of a let down IRL (for the first expectations I created).

I mean, even the early Su-27 Flanker suposedly does maintain better turn rate at lesser airspeeds, doesn't loose speed so fast when turning, and probably also has a smaller turn radius, etc, than the MiG-29A.

 

This was also much debated at the thread below.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/220395-mig-29s-bfm-characteristics-doubts/#comments

 

 

 

 

 

[Max1mus]

Avionics and missiles, not maneuverability. They are the MiG-29Ks selling points and the reason why the MiG-29A is so disappointing, whether thats the current one in DCS or the 80$ version coming to DCS.

 

A modern MiG-29K has everything that the current soviet DCS MiGs do not.

 

I believe the old K that was in DCS might have been that 1980s prototype model that never made it into production or service.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Max1mus

[Seaeagle]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:33 AM, Max1mus said:

Avionics and missiles, not maneuverability. They are the MiG-29Ks selling points and the reason why the MiG-29A is so disappointing, whether thats the current one in DCS or the 80$ version coming to DCS.

Also "maneuverability" - there is more to this than just the max G-limit.....just look at the Hornet.

Quote

A modern MiG-29K has everything that the current soviet DCS MiGs do not.

That would also be the case for the old "soviet" MiG-29K.

Quote

 

I believe the old K that was in DCS might have been that 1980s prototype model that never made it into production or service.

 

It was never in DCS - it was in Flanker 2.5. But yes it was the original MiG-29K(the new version didn't exist back then), but it wasn't simulated particulary well - e.g. it had the cockpit of a baseline MiG-29 with the single addition of an AOA indicator on the HUD for carrier landings.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Seaeagle

[Max1mus]

12 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

That would also be the case for the old "soviet" MiG-29K.

Same radar, same missiles, same avionics. I believe even same engines.

[Seaeagle]

7 minutes ago, Max1mus said:

Same radar, same missiles, same avionics. I believe even same engines.

Not sure I understand - same as what so you mean?

[Max1mus]

29 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Not sure I understand - same as what so you mean?

'
Very similar level of technology. I dont think it even has fly by wire. Late 2000s MiG-29s are the ones we need in DCS to provide a good opponent.

The other thing is that it never saw service or mass production.

[Seaeagle]

34 minutes ago, Max1mus said:

'
Very similar level of technology. I dont think it even has fly by wire. Late 2000s MiG-29s are the ones we need in DCS to provide a good opponent.

The other thing is that it never saw service or mass production.

Let me get this straight - you think the 1990 MiG-29K was similar technology to the baseline 9.12?!

 

If so I can guarantee you that it was not. Look for information on the MiG-29M(9.15) from the same period and then realise that the MiG-29K was the same aircraft made "carrier capable".

 

I.e same airframe as the -M, but with more beefy landing gear, larger foldable wings with larger flaps and an arrerstor hook instead of the -M's two-piece brake chutes. Addition of IFR probe and provision for buddy refueling pack.

 

Same digital fly-by-wire flight control system.

 

Same RD-33K engines as the -M, but with additional "emergency thrust" feature(similar to that of the Su-33).

 

Same system's complex as the -M: N010 "Zhuk" radar, OLS-M optronic system, L-150 Pastel RWR, Gardeniya-1FU ECM, new advanced datalink system etc. The MiG-29K had a more sophisticated navigation system than the -M though. 

 

Same range of armament - such as R-77, R-27ER/ET - Kh-31A and Kh-35 anti-ship missiles, Kh-31P anti-radar missiles, Kh-29L/TE and KAB-500kr etc.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Seaeagle

[Max1mus]

18 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Let me get this straight - you think the 1990 MiG-29K was similar technology to the baseline 9.12?!

 

If so I can guarantee you that it was not. Look for information on the MiG-29M(9.15) from the same period and then realise that the MiG-29K was the same aircraft made "carrier capable".

 

I.e same airframe as the -M, but with more beefy landing gear, larger foldable wings with larger flaps and an arrerstor hook instead of the -M's two-piece brake chutes. Addition of IFR probe and provision for buddy refueling pack.

 

Same digital fly-by-wire flight control system.

 

Same RD-33K engines as the -M, but with additional "emergency thrust" feature(similar to that of the Su-33).

 

Same system's complex as the -M: N010 "Zhuk" radar, OLS-M optronic system, L-150 Pastel RWR, Gardeniya-1FU ECM, new advanced datalink system etc. The MiG-29K had a more sophisticated navigation system than the -M though. 

 

Same range of armament - such as R-77, R-27ER/ET - Kh-31A and Kh-35 anti-ship missiles, Kh-31P anti-radar missiles, Kh-29L/TE and KAB-500kr etc.

 

 

 

Youre talking about late 2000s MiG-29M/K (9.31/41?) For example, the Pastel RWR did not exist in 1990.

 

Regardless, this old 29K was merely a prototype.

[Seaeagle]

1 hour ago, Max1mus said:

Youre talking about late 2000s MiG-29M/K (9.31/41?)

No I am talking about the old 1990 MiG-29M(9.15) and MiG-29K(9.31).

1 hour ago, Max1mus said:

 For example, the Pastel RWR did not exist in 1990.

Yes it did.

1 hour ago, Max1mus said:

Regardless, this old 29K was merely a prototype.

There were two aircraft- first one(no. 311 from 1988) was a prototype, while the other(no. 312 from 1990) was a fully configured "test aircraft". But you are right that this initial variant wasn't put into production/service.

[vanir]

Sorry if I'm necrothreading but I was hunting around for any free MiG-29K mods I could download and came across this thread. As it turns out I have a 93-94 Janes with some information on all four, original MiG-29K prototypes right in front of me. The first was just a regular 9.12 with an arrestor hook fitted for training purposes. The two important ones were converted from two more 9.12 airframes starting in November 1989 for the purposes of flight trials aboard the Admiral Kuznetsov. These were the ones publicly displayed in Minsk in February 1992 carrying antiship missiles. Modifications to the 9.12 airframe included enlarged, folding wings with 8 hardpoints, slightly raised LERX, increased chord horizontal stabilizers with dog toothed edge, FOD solid intake doors replaced by retractable grids and intake louvres deleted, removed ducting provides increased fuel tankage, in-flight refuelling added, arrestor hook, strengthened landing gear, airbrake changed to a large single panel, APU intake deleted, IRST changed, radar set is new N010 with single curvature profile, 2 new RD-33K engines. Then there is a third prototype which is a ground up construction and not a modified 9.12 which is designated the 9.18 or MiG-29KVP technology demonstrator for the MiG-29K as opposed to a test airframe and its role kept that one land based. It was during this period when the Su-33 was selected ahead of the MiG-29K for carrier operations although the two test trial airframes remained aboard Kuznetsov for a time since it was always under equipped with its design accommodation of fixed wing aircraft (up to 4 squadrons), mainly to retain a purpose as a technology trials platform which we also saw with Su-25 navalisation and the later revival of a MiG-29M based MiG-29K (9.31) for export interest following transfer of Admiral Kuznetsov class carriers and their Kiev class conversions. In the 90s however the MiG-29K is basically a modified 9.12 derivative designated 9.18 and the MiG-29M (9.15) is, in fact based upon this with FBW added and not the other way around, which is the same with the Su-33 and original Su-35 relationship, take the navalised initial production basic fighter-interceptor type, add glass pit and FBW with weapons upgrades and there's your advanced multirole fighter proposal.

The revived millenial MiG-29K (9.31) is the one based upon the MiG-29M, which is turn is basically an original MiG-29K or modified 9.12 as above, with a glass pit, HOTAS and FBW added.

Got it all right here in print.

[Top Jockey]

19 minutes ago, vanir said:

Sorry if I'm necrothreading but I was hunting around for any free MiG-29K mods I could download and came across this thread. As it turns out I have a 93-94 Janes with some information on all four, original MiG-29K prototypes right in front of me. The first was just a regular 9.12 with an arrestor hook fitted for training purposes. The two important ones were converted from two more 9.12 airframes starting in November 1989 for the purposes of flight trials aboard the Admiral Kuznetsov. These were the ones publicly displayed in Minsk in February 1992 carrying antiship missiles. Modifications to the 9.12 airframe included enlarged, folding wings with 8 hardpoints, slightly raised LERX, increased chord horizontal stabilizers with dog toothed edge, FOD solid intake doors replaced by retractable grids and intake louvres deleted, removed ducting provides increased fuel tankage, in-flight refuelling added, arrestor hook, strengthened landing gear, airbrake changed to a large single panel, APU intake deleted, IRST changed, radar set is new N010 with single curvature profile, 2 new RD-33K engines. Then there is a third prototype which is a ground up construction and not a modified 9.12 which is designated the 9.18 or MiG-29KVP technology demonstrator for the MiG-29K as opposed to a test airframe and its role kept that one land based. It was during this period when the Su-33 was selected ahead of the MiG-29K for carrier operations although the two test trial airframes remained aboard Kuznetsov for a time since it was always under equipped with its design accommodation of fixed wing aircraft (up to 4 squadrons), mainly to retain a purpose as a technology trials platform which we also saw with Su-25 navalisation and the later revival of a MiG-29M based MiG-29K (9.31) for export interest following transfer of Admiral Kuznetsov class carriers and their Kiev class conversions. In the 90s however the MiG-29K is basically a modified 9.12 derivative designated 9.18 and the MiG-29M (9.15) is, in fact based upon this with FBW added and not the other way around, which is the same with the Su-33 and original Su-35 relationship, take the navalised initial production basic fighter-interceptor type, add glass pit and FBW with weapons upgrades and there's your advanced multirole fighter proposal.

The revived millenial MiG-29K (9.31) is the one based upon the MiG-29M, which is turn is basically an original MiG-29K or modified 9.12 as above, with a glass pit, HOTAS and FBW added.

Got it all right here in print.

 

No problem by me.

For me, it does make more sense to use an already existing thread ( like this ), instead of replicating more threads with no end.

 

So, in your opinion which airframe MiG-29A or MiG-29K, does have better dogfighting characteristics ?

( ITR, STR, climb rate, nose authority, wing loanding, CL max, all that stuf. )

Edited September 2, 2023 by Top Jockey

[F-2]

2 hours ago, vanir said:

Sorry if I'm necrothreading but I was hunting around for any free MiG-29K mods I could download and came across this thread. As it turns out I have a 93-94 Janes with some information on all four, original MiG-29K prototypes right in front of me. The first was just a regular 9.12 with an arrestor hook fitted for training purposes. The two important ones were converted from two more 9.12 airframes starting in November 1989 for the purposes of flight trials aboard the Admiral Kuznetsov. These were the ones publicly displayed in Minsk in February 1992 carrying antiship missiles. Modifications to the 9.12 airframe included enlarged, folding wings with 8 hardpoints, slightly raised LERX, increased chord horizontal stabilizers with dog toothed edge, FOD solid intake doors replaced by retractable grids and intake louvres deleted, removed ducting provides increased fuel tankage, in-flight refuelling added, arrestor hook, strengthened landing gear, airbrake changed to a large single panel, APU intake deleted, IRST changed, radar set is new N010 with single curvature profile, 2 new RD-33K engines. Then there is a third prototype which is a ground up construction and not a modified 9.12 which is designated the 9.18 or MiG-29KVP technology demonstrator for the MiG-29K as opposed to a test airframe and its role kept that one land based. It was during this period when the Su-33 was selected ahead of the MiG-29K for carrier operations although the two test trial airframes remained aboard Kuznetsov for a time since it was always under equipped with its design accommodation of fixed wing aircraft (up to 4 squadrons), mainly to retain a purpose as a technology trials platform which we also saw with Su-25 navalisation and the later revival of a MiG-29M based MiG-29K (9.31) for export interest following transfer of Admiral Kuznetsov class carriers and their Kiev class conversions. In the 90s however the MiG-29K is basically a modified 9.12 derivative designated 9.18 and the MiG-29M (9.15) is, in fact based upon this with FBW added and not the other way around, which is the same with the Su-33 and original Su-35 relationship, take the navalised initial production basic fighter-interceptor type, add glass pit and FBW with weapons upgrades and there's your advanced multirole fighter proposal.

The revived millenial MiG-29K (9.31) is the one based upon the MiG-29M, which is turn is basically an original MiG-29K or modified 9.12 as above, with a glass pit, HOTAS and FBW added.

Got it all right here in print.

If they are just converted 9.12 maybe they could comeback.

[Seaeagle]

7 hours ago, F-2 said:

If they are just converted 9.12 maybe they could comeback.

They were not.

There were only two actual MiG-29K test aircraft back then - no 311 and 312 and they were "converted" 9.15 airframes. So they had all the features of the MiG-29M including the system's complex - the modifications basically boiled down to; bigger wings(larger span) and flaps, uprated landing gear, retractable in-flight refuelling probe and a more advanced navigation system. They used the same engines(RD-33K) as the MiG-29M, but with an "emergency thrust" regime(like on the Su-33).

There was a single 9-12 airframe with some simple modifications  involvng an arrestor hook and a glide scope indexer in the cockpit for some initial tests of arrested landings - this was IIRC called "MiG-29KVP", but it had nothing to do with the actual MiG-29K.

The revived MiG-29K. that is currently in service is the 9.41(single seat) and 9.47 (two seat) and is a case of a complete redesign - sort of like with the legacy F-18 to Super Hornet.

So Vanir got it all wrong as usual.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Seaeagle

[pepin1234]

The 17 NOV 2023 newsletter have a teased screenshot with a brand-new skin never see before. ED is making ready a naval Fulcrum early version?

That will be awesome. Su-33 sound like boring in the Kuznetsov. I know the 1990 Mig-29K was a prototipe but hey, why not... 

Edited December 10, 2023 by pepin1234

[Cab]

1 hour ago, pepin1234 said:

I know the 1990 Mig-29K was a prototipe but hey, why not... 

 

Not just a prototype.

India operates the Mig-29K on their carrier INS Vikramaditya

[Dragon1-1]

ED would've made an FF MiG-29 the moment they managed to get the go-ahead from Russia. Just look at how much they showcase it in videos. They obviously love the aircraft and would likely jump at the change to make a better module than FC3 out of it.

[Silver_Dragon]

13 minutes ago, Cab said:

Not just a prototype.

India operates the Mig-29K on their carrier INS Vikramaditya

The old MiG-29K [Fulcrum D] was a Model 9.31. ‘Korabelnyy’ or shipboard version of MiG-29M, Canceled Aug 92.
The indian Mig-29K Export to India with Zhuk-ME radar, has actual MiG-29KR [Fulcrum D], Model 9.41R with FBW controls, diferent aircrafts.

[Cab]

So, the specific version then. 

Got it.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Cab

[Mike_Romeo]

4 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

with a brand-new skin never see before.

No its not, its a 5 years old community livery that you can download from the DCS userfiles https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/2370963/

[pepin1234]

2 minutes ago, Mike_Romeo said:

No its not, its a 5 years old community livery that you can download from the DCS userfiles https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/2370963/

Well but I assume the ED newsletter will show original products… or incoming products. Anyway we will see

[Mike_Romeo]

1 minute ago, pepin1234 said:

Well but I assume the ED newsletter will show original products… or incoming products. Anyway we will see

They dont. They have used community liveries multiple times in the past.

[Top Jockey]

Man ... and for brief moments here I was, starting to get hope, that evetually I would one day see an improved MiG-29 variant with proper BFM turning capability...

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Cab said:

So, the specific version then. 

Got it.

 

No, ED dont go to make a "carrier based Mig-29K" by the problem of they dont have access to open sources info, and the problems with the moderns Russian military law. Wags was very clear.

[Cab]

5 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

No, ED dont go to make a "carrier based Mig-29K" by the problem of they dont have access to open sources info, and the problems with the moderns Russian military law. Wags was very clear.

Yes, I know.

I was only originally commenting on the statement that the Mig-29K was just a prototype.