fixed dogfight override selects warm seeker aim9x instead of cool seeker

[Steelpanther]

Aircraft had amraams and aim9x loaded. Master arm set to MASTER ARM. Air-to-Air master mode selected. Amraam selected. Dogfight override mode entered and I always seem to get aim9x selected with warm seeker head.

 

 It was only after I exited from dogfight mode back into AAM with those aim9x selected, and then back again into dogfight mode again, that the cool seeker arrived with aim9x cool seeker selected. Master arm was on constantly.

 

My control setup was warthog throttle and I used boat switch as the DGFT and MSL OVR switch in controls. Clearly my controls work, otherwise they would be unable to even switch between DGFT and AAM and MSL OVR. The controls I setup for the boat switch was called in its category designation "special for joystick, throttle grip, hotas"  dogfight missile override switch dogfight/center, and dogfight missile override switch missile override/center.

F-16_bug_report_dogfight_override_aim9_cool_seeker.trk F-16_bug_report_dogfight_override_aim9_cool_seeker_2.trk

[SpaceMonkey037]

1 hour ago, Steelpanther said:

do you have any sources for this btw? Seems like sort of egregious bug if this is the case.

 

The Information I have supplied can be found in the pilot's guides from lockheed martin and probably the -34-1-1, but the pilot's guides are the most recent updates so these must be searched first for information.

[BIGNEWY]

checked with the team the behaviour in DCS is correct based on the information we have.

 

thanks

 

 

[Steelpanther]

23 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

checked with the team the behaviour in DCS is correct based on the information we have.

 

thanks

 

 

the only document i could find from google was multicommand F-16 handbook dated 1996 volume 5 (from f-16.net)

 

It mentions fence in checklist. And under it it says put missiles to cool seeker. Implication is that the missiles would stay on cool seeker, because it is part of a fence in procedure prior to entering the combat zone. But maybe the behavior changed from the 1996 versions of F-16 and aim9 missile. In those days there must have been aim-9M in service

https://www.f-16.net/downloads/F-16_Handbooks/11-f-16v5.pdf

 

[Bouli306]

With Master Arm Switch in SIM you should be able to manually select cool for the missile.

[Steelpanther]

23 minutes ago, Bouli306 said:

With Master Arm Switch in SIM you should be able to manually select cool for the missile.

this doesnt work currently in game i just tested it

[Geraki]

The behaviour is correct the pilot selects when the head will be cooled

 

OVRD switch return the missile into default position.

[SpaceMonkey037]

12 hours ago, Geraki said:

The behaviour is correct the pilot selects when the head will be cooled

 

OVRD switch return the missile into default position.

If you trying to say that the missile is returned to the default WARM mode when going to dogfight switch center from an override mode with MASTER ARM in ARM with the missile in WARM making it automatically switch to COOL I guess I agree somewhat as the piot could forget that the mode automatically selected it.

I think you should test this by first turning the missile to COOL maually in dogfight switch center and then go to dogfight master mode with MASTER ARM in ARM and then back to dogfight switch centre. If this ^ is the case, the missile will not change mode, however, if it is bugged the missile will change mode.

[Steelpanther]

21 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

checked with the team the behaviour in DCS is correct based on the information we have.

 

thanks

 

 

I dont have a dog in this fight if what you say is true that the implementation as is should be correct for block 50 F-16.

 

My impetus in filing this "bug report" was that I read both Chucks guide F-16 and the eagle dynamics F-16 early access manual. And the eagle dynamics manual was misleading in this regard then. if the current ingame  implementation is the  correct one. Because the ED manual F-16 claims on p.189 regarding sidewinder missiles the following

eagle dynamics F-16 early access guide p.199

Quote

WARM/COOL activates or deactivates argon cooling of the seeker. This should be set to COOL prior to an engagement to cool the seeker and increase detection sensitivity. COOL is selected automatically when entering DGFT or MSL Override mode. Argon supply duration varies depending on outside air temperature, pressure and bottle charge level at installation, but the average duration is 90 minutes.

 clearly as evidenced by the ingame tracks that I posted the underlined is wrong in the manual then. COOL is only selected automatically when entering the dogfight override mode, IF the AIM-9 was already selected as a weapon e.g. in the AAM mode. However if you enter dogfight override mode from AAM with AIM-120 selected as a weapon, you will instead receive in the dogfight override mode AIM-9 selected with WARM seeker

 

Furthermore the COOL is not automatically selected with MSL override mode. In fact ingame what happens is that if you had selected AIM-9 and COOL in dogfight override mode, and transition to AAM, then still in this stage the settings are preserved for the AIM-9 in the AAM. But entering MSL override mode, the AIM-120 is selected and seemingly the AIM-9 seeker reverts back to WARM upon the change of weapons.

 

eagle dynamics F-16 early access guide p.188

Quote

A common technique is to configure the displays, radar and missiles for each mode as desired during ground operations. This provides three distinct weapon delivery options (Dogfight, Missile Override and Default) without the need to remove your hands from the controls.

Perhaps an addition could be made here that AIM-9 seeker cooling will not be considered a saveable setting upon change of weapons from AIM-9-> AIM-120->AIM-9? I think atleast BORE/SLAVE will be preserved from what I've seen ingame

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Steelpanther
corected page numbers for current edition of f16 ED manual

[BIGNEWY]

thanks, I will run it passed the team and check the manual

[Steelpanther]

it might be that im somehow misunderstanding the centering of the dogfight switch somehow but now im just utterly confused myself lol

[BIGNEWY]

I have made a report as the manual does seem to imply the MSL Override would set a cool seeker and it is not currently. 

 

thank you