How do YOU speed up the A ?

[Fliegerkalle]

Hello. 
 

i still struggle a bit to speed up the A economically. So may you can write me your way. 
 

If I fly a CAP mission with 4-Aim54 , 2 AIm 7 , 2 Aim 9 and 2 tanks. 
 

i normally start and fly with full military ( to save fuel ) and go in level flight until Mach 0.6. Then I pitch 10degree and climb until 28K feet with Mach 0.6.  
 

If I want now to start an attack I accelerate with Full AB , but my problem is it cost dramatically much fuel to reach Mach 0.9 - 1.0 region. 
 

Any ideas how I can improve it or speed the A up - how you fly ? 
 

any chance to come to Mach 2 ? Or is this speed only with a lean plane reachable ?
 

thanks for your reply greets fliegerkalle. 

 

 

 

[Uxi]

Only really able to get past Mach 1.7 or so by dropping bags and holding the burners for awhile.   The F-14A doesn't accelerate as well as the F-14B with the GE F110.  Usually seems like afterburner up for a rapid climb to altitude and then cruising rather slow per the fuel ladder since longevity and loiter time is somewhere the Tomcat excels over the Hornet as much as in raw speed. 
 

Besides, anything more than 2 x Phoenix was really rare operationally.  Full loadouts never really had more than 2 and standard carrier CAP tended to have 1.  2-3 sidewinder and 2-3 Sparrow were far more common though the 4 x Sidewinder and 4 x Sparrow seemed more common when expecting AA threat well through ODS.  Most operation with Phoenix loads is going to be cruising and rather at about 250 or so KIAS since most CAP look like  a typical military "hurry up and wait" style than an action movie, at least until there's an intercept in which case either going for the objective or protecting the boat.

[draconus]

Last time it was asked we got economy based profile:

climb 350KIAS/.75M whatever is lower
cruise 0.75M 32,000ft
loiter .65 IIRC

optimum AoA: 5 units for climb, 8.5 units for cruise

 

To speed up unload the G or just descent a bit nose down.

[Spartan111sqn]

53 minutes ago, draconus said:

Last time it was asked we got economy based profile:

climb 350KIAS/.75M whatever is lower
cruise 0.75M 32,000ft
loiter .65 IIRC

optimum AoA: 5 units for climb, 8.5 units for cruise

 

To speed up unload the G or just descent a bit nose down.

and optimum AoA units for loiter?

 

Thanks.

I would expect AoA 8.5 for loiter not for cruise, seems high in my opinion, but you know more than me probably...

[draconus]

Should've just linked it instead:

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by draconus

[Spartan111sqn]

5 minutes ago, draconus said:

Should've just linked it instead:

 

 

thanks a lot!

I will ask there

[Fliegerkalle]

@draconus

I also saw this post but this was ask for the F14B. 
 

Is this also useable for the F14 A  even with her different engines ? 
 

thanks for all your replies really interressting. 

[Spurts]

The speeds are more about the F-14 airframe efficiency.  The engines will determine rate of climb available at those speeds.

[sLYFa]

Its not that simple. Engine efficiency varies with alt/mach number which impacts overall flight peformance. Best climb/crz for the A is therefore around 0.65M

Edited March 15, 2021 by sLYFa

[Fliegerkalle]

What’s about flying with different wings sweep ? May it maybe better accelerate if I decrease the wing sweep manually in some way? Or is the best way to let it in Auto the whole time ? 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Fliegerkalle

[sLYFa]

You can get a veeery minimal gain by unloading (i.e. about 0.5g) and sweeping the wings manually full aft but thats about it.

[Spartan111sqn]

yes, try to keep alpha close to 0

[AH_Solid_Snake]

I think something to bear in mind is that with fighters prior to the F-14 you had to be very aware of your energy state and very calculating of deciding when to take an energy excursion to make sure it paid off for you.

 

The F-14A in comparison to an F-16 will struggle to regain energy if you have pulled to hard for no result - but that’s taken as entirely normal for a jet in 1972, the fact that aerodynamically it could out accelerate planes like the F-4 wasn’t on account of the TF30s raw power.

 

There is a bit of a propensity for DCS dogfights or BFM to just light the cans, put the enemy across the canopy and pull until someone wins, which honestly can be effective in the F-16 or F-14B. Less so with the F-18 if you use all your energy poorly.

 

If you want a challenge then start taking on the AI or other players with a reasonable altitude and speed to start with, but have a no afterburners rule and see how it changes your attitude towards altitude and just heaving the nose around.

 

Edit: Since folk seem to be confused by my point I was trying to articulate that the A model shouldn't really be expected to have the same kind of acceleration in a straight line as we are used to with the B.

 

If you would rather just a profile to get the A to the mach 2 region then from rough memory, climb to 37k feet in mil and allow it to accelerate about 0.8M, then apply afterburners and keep your AOA 0'd to build speed, once the nose really starts to pitch up allow it to go up to say 42-43k feet without allowing the speed to bleed off then use the dive back to 37k to accelerate more. That should get you started at least.

Edited March 17, 2021 by AH_Solid_Snake

[captain_dalan]

The plane (A) should be faster then the B up high, but it still isn't. Accelerating at higher altitudes when being in anything but a clean bird is a problem. True, the plane no longer explodes when you try to go past mach 1 above angels 20, but neither will it go much beyond. You should be able to reach  mach 2.2 at 36-37000ft in a 4x4 . Right now, you can't. Even with infinite fuel.

[Spurts]

They'll get it figured out.  I do miss the hilarity of my FR-71 Blackcat, humming along at Mach3 at 70,000+, but I knew that was a bug.

[Sideburns]

Currently for a mix of economy and time to height I do mach 0.6/0.8 up to 15-22kft, then level off a bit to accelerate to mach 0.9-1.10 while continuing to 35-42kft. Above 30kft the engine seems to accelerate much better once it is past 400knts IAS, so consider maintaining or loosing some height to gain speed if you are below 400knts up high.

 

But yeah, the F14B is point and shoot, the F14A takes some planning and uses more fuel to get to speed. I also acknowledge the DCS F14 is still a work in progress, not trying to claim this is correct IRL.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Sideburns

[IronMike]

If you wanna fly like Okie and Victory and these guys did, fly around 200kts. Okie told us the most of the time he'd spend at that speed. I fly the A at such speeds on CAP stations where I dont expect to get jumped immediately or on anything that doesn't require fast. To prepare an attack run I accelerate to 350kts IAS with mil power, and punch the burners to complete the attack, I dive for the last part to both gain speed and obtain a look up advantage. Never run out of fuel, never feel to slow or sluggish in that.

 

Small edit, Victory just told me that max conserve was at 230kts IAS +/-5 - so you do not need to be that slow.

Edited March 19, 2021 by IronMike

[Whiskey11]

5 hours ago, IronMike said:

If you wanna fly like Okie and Victory and these guys did, fly around 200kts. Okie told us the most of the time he'd spend at that speed. I fly the A at such speeds on CAP stations where I dont expect to get jumped immediately or on anything that doesn't require fast. To prepare an attack run I accelerate to 350kts IAS with mil power, and punch the burners to complete the attack, I dive for the last part to both gain speed and obtain a look up advantage. Never run out of fuel, never feel to slow or sluggish in that.

 

Small edit, Victory just told me that max conserve was at 230kts IAS +/-5 - so you do not need to be that slow.

 

I've noticed the F-14, both the B and A just HANG in the air around 33k feet at between 250 and 200 knots indicated... I was struggling one day to get the Pilot LANTIRN mod working (ended up just VR walking through the bulkhead and flipping it on manually lol) and put it in that configuration through all four GBU's I dropped (2 GBU-24's and 2 GBU-16's) and when I turned for home I had about 15k lbs of fuel remaining after about 400nmi of travel.  

On the campaigns, in the B, I've been doing the same and I have so much fuel left after the CAP/FAD mission, I end up in burner on the way home just to make landing weight!  Love the loiter time of the F-14.  It's just silly.

[IronMike]

3 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

I've noticed the F-14, both the B and A just HANG in the air around 33k feet at between 250 and 200 knots indicated... I was struggling one day to get the Pilot LANTIRN mod working (ended up just VR walking through the bulkhead and flipping it on manually lol) and put it in that configuration through all four GBU's I dropped (2 GBU-24's and 2 GBU-16's) and when I turned for home I had about 15k lbs of fuel remaining after about 400nmi of travel.  

On the campaigns, in the B, I've been doing the same and I have so much fuel left after the CAP/FAD mission, I end up in burner on the way home just to make landing weight!  Love the loiter time of the F-14.  It's just silly.

 

Real Tomcat crews were not unhappy of fuel remaining, as that meant they could practice BFM before returning to the boat. This maybe/likely wasn't the case during wartime - @Victory205 can correct me if I am wrong - but in peace time crews tried to save a little more to be able to do that. IIRC they had a dedicated area behind the ship for BFM practice.

Edited March 19, 2021 by IronMike

[AH_Solid_Snake]

Hey it’s a 100% legit training activity amirite?? The fact it would also be immense fun is just gravy.