Necessary to uncage when using cursor depress to HMD slew and fire aim9 without FCR?

[pchRage]

Recently been having mixed results when firing an Aim9 under radar quiet scenarios in MP. 

 

I have used just cursor depress, align hmd to target, get a tone, fire and splash.  Other times, same situation and it just goes ballistic.

 

I have used cursor depress, align hmd to target, get a tone, THEN uncage, fire and splash.  Other times, same situation and it just goes ballistic.

 

I cannot tell if the uncage step in this scenario is necessary or not. I cannot tell if it is truly helping as my guide vs ballistic doesn't greatly different in either case.  I'd say my ratio is 70% success in tracking in either scenario...

 

 

 

[Florence201]

Uncage will reset any lock you’ve had with the 9X

Edited March 15, 2021 by Florence201

[Checkmate]

Aim9 L and M can be fired without uncaging the missile, but you would have to keep the target in the center of the Hud until you fire the missile. I believe the advantage to uncaging the seeker head is to allow it to self track the target's heat source and this way you don't have to keep it in boresight where the reticle remains in the middle. This way your free to maneuver. Anyone else want to shed some light on this.

 

One thing I wanted to add is that the reason I sometimes uncage is that I am not in range of the missile yet and I want to be able to maneuver without having to keep the target in the center of the hud while maneuvering to get into range. It's also reassuring when you uncage the missile and the seeker head continues to stay on the target by itself.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Checkmate

[kengou]

Uncage isn't necessary, the Sidewinder will track anything it has tone on. The trick is keeping the JHMCS cursor directly on a moving target, with good tone, for the second or two it takes to release a Sidewinder. It is more reliable to put the cursor on target, get tone, uncage, make sure the sidewinder is stuck on the target, THEN fire.

[pchRage]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

@kengou what do you mean by "more reliable" though? 

 

[ice41]

How steady is your plane when you release the missile?
 

I noticed an uncaged seeker can't keep up with the target if I roll my plane too quickly, especially if the offbore angle is high.

I've seen some of my high offbore shots go ballistic off the rail if I was rolling when I launched even if I had a good tone the moment I pressed release.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by ice41

[Machalot]

2 hours ago, ice41 said:

How steady is your plane when you release the missile?
 

I noticed an uncaged seeker can't keep up with the target if I roll my plane too quickly, especially if the offbore angle is high.

I've seen some of my high offbore shots go ballistic off the rail if I was rolling when I launched even if I had a good tone the moment I pressed release.

 

 

This makes sense, because the seeker slew rate required to track through a roll maneuver is approximately equal to the roll rate times the off-bore angle, in addition to any natural target motion.  (All angles in radians.)  All seekers have a finite slew rate limit, except AESA radars for practical purposes. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Machalot

[pchRage]

I will certainly test the roll aspect..  

 

I do not think I have a clear answer on "yes" you must uncage vs "no" do not vs "doesnt matter"...

 

[ice41]

2 hours ago, pchRage said:

I will certainly test the roll aspect..  

 

I do not think I have a clear answer on "yes" you must uncage vs "no" do not vs "doesnt matter"...

 

 

4 hours ago, pchRage said:

Thanks for the feedback.

 

@kengou what do you mean by "more reliable" though? 

 

 

Uncage is not a must. Move the seeker diamond over the target for a good tone and press weapon release is enough. Uncage helps if you aren't looking perfectly at the target or aren't tracking the target perfectly with your HMD.

 

More reliable because the tone means the missile sees a thing that it can track, it does not guarantee this thing is the target that you want. Flares near the target is one possibility that comes to mind. I don't remember if you can get a 9M tone looking at the sun.

Edited March 15, 2021 by ice41

[Top Jockey]

22 hours ago, Checkmate said:

Aim9 L and M can be fired without uncaging the missile, but you would have to keep the target in the center of the Hud at all times. I believe the advantage to uncaging the seeker head is to allow it to self track the target's heat source and this way you don't have to keep it in boresight where the reticle remains in the middle. This way your free to maneuver. Anyone else want to shed some light on this.

 

edit

After reading again slowly - you're completely right.

 

About "keeping" the target at center of the HUD (at the AIM-9's boresight FOV) at all times:

It only has to be briefly pointed at the target, from the audio growl signal until missile launch moment.

 

As, after the missile (almost every heat-seeking AIM-9 variant) has been launched, it self-tracks the target.

 

18 hours ago, pchRage said:

I will certainly test the roll aspect..  

 

I do not think I have a clear answer on "yes" you must uncage vs "no" do not vs "doesnt matter"...

 

 

The reason why the answer is not always clear is, because dealing with high-tech weapon systems complexity / intrincacies is not always a pure straight-forward process.

 

Regarding the AIM-9 uncage function, while you do not always "have to" employ it, it is very useful in specific circumstances.

(For instance, in a situation where 2 aicraft are flying somewhat closely together and you can hear the missile's audio growl, but are not sure of exactly which aircraft the missile's seeker is looking at.)

 

... and by the way, the CAGE / UNCAGE function will work with somewhat different quirks in an F-14, F-15, F-16 and F/A-18.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Top Jockey

[VampireNZ]

All good stuff written above, but to add - it is in your 'best interests' to uncage prior to firing the Aim-9 to ensure the seeker is 'locked' to the heat source as best it can be.

Yes you can launch just keeping the target in boresight and hearing the tone - but you will notice the tone is not reliable and will fade with even a small shift in aspect - whereas the tone will be solid and strong once uncaged as the seeker can track the heat source itself.

 

Imagine that loss of tone with a small shift in aspect to the target if not caged - and then consider that ok I can hear tone so it's fine - 'launch', but then in the process of launching the fixed seeker of the missile offsets even slightly from the heat source and loses lock (as easily as you lose tone with a small shift off-boresight), and thus goes ballistic.

For the sake of a 1-sec button push prior to launch - it is 1 second well spent.

[pchRage]

Back n forth

 

Sounds like optimal case... slew hmd with cursor depress to start getting tone.   stop/slow maneuvering to avoid seeker los issues.  uncage, fire..

[Top Jockey]

On 3/17/2021 at 4:22 PM, pchRage said:

Back n forth

 

Sounds like optimal case... slew hmd with cursor depress to start getting tone.   stop/slow maneuvering to avoid seeker los issues.  uncage, fire..

 

I've haven't flown the F-16 much ultimately (I've been more at the Hornet and MiG-29), but:

 

- which "cursor depress" do you mean ?

- if using AIM-9x without Radar, one slews the Helmet sight on target, and after positive audio growl press Uncage;

- if using it with Radar, press TMS once for boresight mode, slew Helmet sight to target, press TMS again for target lock with Radar, and then Uncage if pretended...