cool_t Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 When the developers of the Black Shark were drawing up the prints for the KA-50 what was the logic in setting the gun on one side of the KA-50? We all know how fluid and unpredictable combat is so why is the the gun limited to only a specific side of the KA-50? Example: Your in your KA-50 shooting a target some where off to the right of you. Then all of the sudden AAA comes up from the ground 1/2 mile to your left side. If the KA-50s gun could move all the way to the left you could target the AAA site, but instead you need to take time to move the KA-50 into a fireing soulution, which might be too late. Im at a loss with the logic and placement of the KA-50s' foward gun placement. :helpsmilie:
deviletk Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Gear folds into the body and the under carriage becomes completelly without any "stuff" there. Maybe its placed on the side to keep it clean so they can just go very very low without being afraid to damage expensive and life saving gear? lol nah i got no idea. Best would be to be able to move a gun around i guess. But those ruski pilots are very good at flying so turning to the side might be as good. :) Regards Alex "Snuffer" D. AMD FX8350 (8 core) 4.1GHZ ::: 8GB Dominator 1600mhz ::: GTX660 2GB ::: 2xHD ::: 24" ASUS
joey45 Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 ......... Example: Your in your KA-50 shooting a target some where off to the right of you. Then all of the sudden AAA comes up from the ground 1/2 mile to your left side. If the KA-50s gun could move all the way to the left you could target the AAA site, but instead you need to take time to move the KA-50 into a fireing soulution, which might be too late..... :helpsmilie: Move in to cover... The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
GTengineer Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Maybe, Russian bullet seekers have higher azimuth limits? :D Q6600 @ 3.8GHz, 8GB DDR2-1000, 8800GT 512MB, Vista x64, TrackIR4
GGTharos Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 It's a big gun which requires a lot of recoil compensation. That's all there is to it. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Peyoteros Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) firstly the gun is 30 mm caliber it gives you 5 tons of recoil... it is where it supposed to be... secondly there is auto mode which points the heli at the target... so.. go back to practicing... guitar ;) Edited August 22, 2008 by Peyoteros 1 "Eagle Dynamics" - simulating human madness since 1991 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ۞ ۞
PoleCat Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Are we going to have to take a poll to stop cool_t from taking so many polls? ;) Out 3 http://www.104thphoenix.com/
arneh Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 firstly the gun is 30 mm caliber it gives you 5 tons of recoil... it is where it supposed to be... Well, the Mi-28 uses the exact same gun in a turret under the nose. So it's certainly possible to do it that way with that gun. But from what I understand the side mounting has more stability, and gives better accuracy. It's a trade off.
Peyoteros Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) Well, the Mi-28 uses the exact same gun in a turret under the nose. So it's certainly possible to do it that way with that gun. But from what I understand the side mounting has more stability, and gives better accuracy. It's a trade off. You forget that Mi-28 is a two seater and have a dedicated man to operate the weapon which can point in all directions and Ka50 is a single man fighting machine and design is closely related to one man operating heli and the weapon systems... Pilot is assisted by four computers to fly and fight alone... so :pilotfly: Edited August 22, 2008 by Peyoteros "Eagle Dynamics" - simulating human madness since 1991 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ۞ ۞
Duke49th Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Less air drag as with the Mi-28 version of gun, I think. And the gun is maybe more accurate as the AH64 gun, becaus of the length of the gun. But this is only what I guess. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 49th Black Diamonds - DCS & Falcon BMS Online Squad
Mugatu Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 As you smack into the mountain!! firstly the gun is 30 mm caliber it gives you 5 tons of recoil... it is where it supposed to be... secondly there is auto mode which points the heli at the target... so.. go back to practicing... guitar ;)
nscode Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Test with side targets showed that Ka-50 is more precise turning it self to the side (without changing the direction it's moving), than Mi-28 turning just its gun. :) The gun is close to center, so it has a much smaller effect on stability 1 Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
Peyoteros Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 As you smack into the mountain!! well, if one was born to crawl he should not attempt to fly... situation awareness is ON. "Eagle Dynamics" - simulating human madness since 1991 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ۞ ۞
sobek Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The skval sensor suite cannot deviate to the sides a lot so you could not take full advantage of a fully articulated gun mount. Also the emphasis was clearly on long range precision as with the higher caliber instead of the spray and pray philosophy of the ah-64 for example. 1 Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
cool_t Posted August 23, 2008 Author Posted August 23, 2008 It's a big gun which requires a lot of recoil compensation. That's all there is to it. Right, with the pilot needing to "Move" his KA-50 into a fireing solution for the un-seen AAA to the left? Right side mounted gun + AAA to far left = Trouble or death :doh:
Zulu Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 I believe that the designers made a sensible choice as it being a single pilot set up it would create higher workloads. Imagine trying to train the gun onto target and fly at the same time. One way ticket to death. 1 To INVENT an Airplane is Nothing. To BUILD One is Something. But to FLYis EVERYTHING. - Otto Lilienthal [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 If you have unseen AAA firing at you, your problems are over and gun placement doesn't matter. 2 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
mvsgas Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 What about center of gravity? You guys think the CG of the helicopter could have played a huge roll as well? Those guns are move hydraulically right? The weight of a gun turret and ammo. I guess MI-28 it is easier to balance the turret with it having that very long tail boom. What about ground clearance? How high will the landing gear had to be for the gun to clear the ground? Just other things think could have affected the gun installation. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
zakobi Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 Don't know with Mi-28, but what i've heard the AH-64 use a less powerfull cartridge (less amount of gunpowder?).
hitman Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 Are we going to have to take a poll to stop cool_t from taking so many polls? ;) Out http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=31675
arneh Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 Right, with the pilot needing to "Move" his KA-50 into a fireing solution for the un-seen AAA to the left? Right side mounted gun + AAA to far left = Trouble or death I think gun duels against AAA is a bad trouble in any case ;) I believe that the designers made a sensible choice as it being a single pilot set up it would create higher workloads. Imagine trying to train the gun onto target and fly at the same time. The Ka-50 gun is movable, so the same workload is already there. It just doesn't move as much as a turreted gun. And the Ka-50 has an autopilot mode for turning the aircraft at the target. Don't you think it's easier to make an automated system which just moves the gun, and not the entire helicopter? :) Don't know with Mi-28, but what i've heard the AH-64 use a less powerfull cartridge (less amount of gunpowder?). The Mi-28 uses the exact same gun and ammunition as the Ka-50. But yes, the AH-64 fires lighter projectiles at a lower muzzle velocity, so hence less powerful, even if the caliber is the same.
Fahrenheit007 Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 I think its on the right side that the tail rotor can balnace the blowback of the gun!!! Your six is my twelve!!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to virtual 52nd Fighter Wing on picture
arneh Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 I think its on the right side that the tail rotor can balnace the blowback of the gun!!! Which tail rotor? :)
hitman Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 Which tail rotor? :) The one underneath the first 3.
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