[REPORTED] Flares not appearing in FLIR Hot Spot detector

[D4n]

See .trk.

Flares FLIR.trk

[Wisky]

because their size is too small to be missunderstood as a plane or tank

[Hawkeye_UK]

There is a simple answer to this and that is becuase Razbam have not modelled it on a heat source.  No doubt there will say they are waiting for ED code, which was always the historical issue so to be honest not quite sure why they have modelled it currently in game.  Bit pointless to be honest, unless they have no aspiratations to actually do it when the upgraded thermal signatures are released.  Once possible scenario and conclusion.

 

Whilst the real life version gave alot of false positives for targets it would bounce off buildings which whilst not targets in all instances do give a thermal signature.  Again not seen this once.

 

Also once you get used to how the false positves are generated in game and then when there is actually a unit there its pretty OP, unnaffected by trees or any line of sight re buildings etc.

 

[shagrat]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye_UK said:

There is a simple answer to this and that is becuase Razbam have not modelled it on a heat source.  No doubt there will say they are waiting for ED code, which was always the historical issue so to be honest not quite sure why they have modelled it currently in game.  Bit pointless to be honest, unless they have no aspiratations to actually do it when the upgraded thermal signatures are released.  Once possible scenario and conclusion.

 

Whilst the real life version gave alot of false positives for targets it would bounce off buildings which whilst not targets in all instances do give a thermal signature.  Again not seen this once.

 

Also once you get used to how the false positves are generated in game and then when there is actually a unit there its pretty OP, unnaffected by trees or any line of sight re buildings etc.

 

That is correct, because DCS currently does not model heat of objects. So no matter what happens in real life, the only way to simulate the NAVFLIR hotspots is to look up objects in the runtime environment database, check if they are in the "field of view" and "range" and add random false positives.

That is a compromise, for sure, but that's what Zeus communicated very clearly and I am very happy with the outcome, for now.

Given the fact that ED is working on an overhaul of the whole IR representation (things like TGP IR being affected by hot smoke and explosions, already) and Razbam clearly telling us they want to review their options for the Hotspot detector with the availability of that feature from ED, we have at least a working Hotspot detector and with the false positives you need a couple seconds to sort out the potential target Positions and train a sensor/aimpoint on them, so for me it's currently the best solution we can get, other than waiting for ED to have the new IR system ready and implemented, which may take a little more time than I would be happy with.

[myHelljumper]

Hi, could you guys do a list here or in another bug report of the problems you found with the new hot spot tracker so It's easier for us to track ?

 

Thanks :).

[Fri13]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:47 PM, Wisky said:

because their size is too small to be missunderstood as a plane or tank

 

The flares are not registering to everything. 

 

Example in MiG-21Bis your gunsight pipper will jump to the flares if you have IR missile selected for launch. On other aircraft like Su-27 and rest the flares do not show up in the IRST systems or trigger anything like with example JHMCS (no idea about now but it use to be so) when guiding AIM-9X seeker. 

 

What people do not seem to understand is that the system is not a hot spot tracker. It does not go pointing the hot spots. The IR seekers does that in the missiles, but not the thermal cueing FLIR system in Harrier. 

 

The system has multiple configuration options that some are set pre-flight to mission computer in mission planning and some are programmed by the pilot, mainly to adjust the system to work better for the mission parameters. 

The system does not track hottest parts or anything like that, it is cuing pilot to programmed temperatures in scale, its size, its range (relative to aircraft altitude and look down angle) and what the surrounding thermal type looks like. 

 

The Razbam system works fine for missiles like example Hydra 70. When you launch those rockets it can track them to the end even when their rocket motor has burn out almost on the moment they fly off from the pod in couple seconds. 

 

What Razbam should do is to make the system to be able be configurable as simulator should, and then wait that ED will provide the new thermal mapping and FLIR system that should allow the player to configure the system for given heat values and differences. It will be challenging work for Razbam as they need to program the system to understand when the FLIR is looking a snow covered hill and there is a vehicle at day, night, sunset, sunrise or it is not operational or it is being heated up. It needs to be able do that differently when it is a meadow or forest. Where the player is required to learn what is wanted to be really pointed out by the system and then configure it to such scenario. 

 

The system doesn't care about target size as it only sees the heat. And flare is massive heat source in the eye of the FLIR and it should ignore a such based how the heat source size is programmed to be, like small, medium, large. If the scale is set to low that targets are searched for finer differences in the complex temperature changes then flares are ignored as they are too big difference in the scale.