DCS: F-14A & B - Excessive shimmering in Cockpit

[lunaticfringe]

26 minutes ago, RustBelt said:

I do walk into a liquor store and complain that half of one wall is garbage flavored Vodka candy booze. And how I can never find Pusser’s Gunpowder Proof Rum. Especially in an open forum liquor store where everyone is together talking about the use and applications of liquor.

Analogies can be hard sometimes.

Which is why you had trouble making one that fit the circumstances.  

You've taken a conversation about a possible bug that went into a useful exchange regarding graphics settings and turned it into a self-focused rambling blog post about card market pricing and taking user preference controls away from them, because you just can't be bothered.

If you don't have the nerve to drop on nVidia or AMDs spaces, Blogger or Substack are far more suited for your "consumers of the world unite!" spiel than the F-14A&B Bugs and Problems Subforum. 

[RustBelt]

You may need to learn to let stuff go. Do you think attention would mean people would NOT double down and respond? 
 

What’s your plan here Senior Panza?  

[Despayre]

19 hours ago, RustBelt said:

I do walk into a liquor store and complain that half of one wall is garbage flavored Vodka candy booze. And how I can never find Pusser’s Gunpowder Proof Rum. Especially in an open forum liquor store where everyone is together talking about the use and applications of liquor.

Analogies can be hard sometimes.

I don’t mine Bitcoin so Nvidia doesn’t care what I have to say, And AMD couldn’t do anything innovative if they even wanted to, they just aren’t set up for that.

Duopolies mean complaining gets everywhere.

Tell me you want to complain about something that ED has absolutely no control over, and only use excuses and poor analogies to make your point.

Oh, my mistake, I see you've already done that.

[RustBelt]

1 hour ago, Despayre said:

Tell me you want to complain about something that ED has absolutely no control over, and only use excuses and poor analogies to make your point.

Oh, my mistake, I see you've already done that.

Couple folks on here seem to confuse conversational complaints for personal affronts that they feel are demands directly to them to solve. Or insults to their character because it relates to a brand on their “team” of consumption preferences.
 

Especially odd that it’s other forum users not actual ED or Heatblur people. And also often pile-on 3rd parties to the thread. Go back, look at my first post on this thread. What do you think is the BEST response to it? What would produce the BEST outcome to reduce forum clutter and off topic tangent if that’s your goal?

Ponder that.

[Cobra847]

To help alleviate this, you can try forcing your mip bias in the nvidia / amd control panel to a higher value. This will however affect the mip ranges for all textures.

[westr]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:26 PM, Cobra847 said:

To help alleviate this, you can try forcing your mip bias in the nvidia / amd control panel to a higher value. This will however affect the mip ranges for all textures.

What/where is Mip bias in the NV control panel please. I know what Nvidia control panel is but can’t find it. 

[westr]

On 4/26/2021 at 9:02 PM, Schmidtfire said:

Thanks for the advice, set my AF to 16x.

Looking at a few tutorials and gamplay videos online I see the same shimmering issues. Youtube compression hides it a bit, but it is there.
So it is something that everyone suffer from (at least on 2xMSAA)

After some investigation I think I have found the cause of the shimmering! Thin, brigther lines (wear and tear around VDI bezels, instrument buttons etc) together
with cockpit shake. Amazing detail and artwork, but in motion it becomes an issue. So I guess it's hard to do anything about it without @Cobra847 changing the artwork to have less details around thin edges.

 

 

I’m guessing a mod to eliminate this detail around the fine edges would be a lot of work? Something that would be more pleasant for VR 

[SkateZilla]

the detail isnt the problem, the GPU Driver's Rendering settings causes shimmering the downsampled textures instead of mip-maps and MSAA.

shimmering on lines and edges is a common MSAA problem.

[Schmidtfire]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:13 PM, SkateZilla said:

shimmering on lines and edges is a common MSAA problem

I would say it is more of a DCS World problem. On old version 1.5.X shimmering was not an issue and we could also crank up MSAA.

On version 2.X.X (after deferred shading switch), shimmering everywhere and limit to 4x MSAA (with no other AA options available).
Deferred Shading, while looking great in many circumstances, came at a very high cost. Lot's of jaggies and shimmers.

 

[draconus]

27 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

with no other AA options available

SSAA was fully supported in DCS. Plus you have PD for VR.

[Schmidtfire]

6 minutes ago, draconus said:

SSAA was fully supported in DCS. Plus you have PD for VR.

You are right, I forgot about SSAA. Does anyone really use that? From what I understand it's very resource intensive... Either way, none of the options will solve the shimmering.
It's not news that DCS World still has a fair bit of issues with it's graphics in certain areas. It is what it is. Maybe it will be improved as time goes on 

[SkateZilla]

8 hours ago, Schmidtfire said:

I would say it is more of a DCS World problem. On old version 1.5.X shimmering was not an issue and we could also crank up MSAA.

On version 2.X.X (after deferred shading switch), shimmering everywhere and limit to 4x MSAA (with no other AA options available).
Deferred Shading, while looking great in many circumstances, came at a very high cost. Lot's of jaggies and shimmers.

 

Older DX11 versions of DCS (2.0/1.5) 
Also did not use deferred shading.

Hence, it's an MSAA Problem, the shading is performed on the 2nd pass after the MSAA is applied.

[SkateZilla]

7 hours ago, Schmidtfire said:

You are right, I forgot about SSAA. Does anyone really use that? From what I understand it's very resource intensive... Either way, none of the options will solve the shimmering.
It's not news that DCS World still has a fair bit of issues with it's graphics in certain areas. It is what it is. Maybe it will be improved as time goes on 

The move to Vulkan would likely solve alot of issues with VR and MSAA/AA/SSAA/Shader Passes.

Users often forget the DX11 Engine was written before VR, so it was likely not optimized from the get go for VR.

MSAA has always been a problem especially when using Deferred shading. It's not a DCS Problem, it's a DX11/12 Problem,
Every title that runs Deferred Shading has that problem, which is why developers were pushing FXAA and TAA.

Edited August 7, 2023 by SkateZilla

[Schmidtfire]

I get your point on the underlying issue. But moving DCS to Deferred Shading was a deliberate choice that left us with what I might consider some of the worst
shimmering in any of the PC games I have played for the last 20 years. It's quite bad on a regular monitor and worse in VR. That's not even touching
other ongoing issues with the engine like color, lighting, view system etc.

On a positive note, I really hope that FXAA/TAA and Vulcan will make it better.