F14 Track Replays Go Haywire

[mmoccio]

I like to do air starts 10 miles behind the carrier to practice my Case I recoveries in the F14. If I have a particularly nice landing I like to watch the track back. I notice that when I watch the track on any other AC it works fine but if I watch back with the F14 it seems to start out well and by a minute or two in to the track it starts to do its own thing, fly in circles, land on the water, and seemingly nothing ive done is played back. I don't have this issue with other aircraft. I am running OB 2.7. Is this an issue others are having? If so, is it something that can be addressed.  

[Spurts]

This is a persistent issue and I have experienced in occasionally in other aircraft as well.  

[fat creason]

Best if you just read these posts/threads:

 

 

 

TLDR: We're not 100% sure it's caused by anything we're doing after spending a good amount of time looking into it, it happens in other modules, and don't expect a fix anytime soon. If you need perfect replay tracks use server tracks instead, that's what all the trailer/movie makers use.

Edited May 20, 2021 by fat creason

[Spurts]

1 hour ago, fat creason said:

If you need perfect replay tracks use server tracks instead, that's what all the trailer/movie makers use.

 

Right, I thought I had heard that.  So make a custom MP server, fly my yourself, use MP trackfile as that uses a vastly different logic than the SP track file

[fat creason]

Yep. Would be nice if ED created an option for which type of track file you want to record. I can't imagine a lot of people use the "jump back into the cockpit" feature during track playback, which is the only real reason to use the current SP track recording method other than for debugging.

Edited May 21, 2021 by fat creason

[mmoccio]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:53 PM, fat creason said:

TLDR: We're not 100% sure it's caused by anything we're doing after spending a good amount of time looking into it, it happens in other modules, and don't expect a fix anytime soon. If you need perfect replay tracks use server tracks instead, that's what all the trailer/movie makers use.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I don't mind using server replay tracks, but I don't want to install a second instance of DCS on my PC. I have a spare PC running various things for my home network, but isn't necessarily powerful by any means. (i3 with 4gb ram)  It is an old Dell Optiplex desktop running Server 2016 on an SSD. I mainly play single player with maybe 20 or 30 assets total on the mission, including the SC. I usually populate the carrier deck with at least 10 or so static aircraft too. I use single player for carrier case I and III practice, AAR and AG practice too. Do you know how much resource is required to just host a mission? I have no experience with this and don't want to ruin the experience just so I can record. I would only be running this server for recording purposes. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by mmoccio

[fat creason]

I've never done it myself but I'm pretty sure you can run a server and a client on the same machine, some HB devs use that method to test certain systems and MP features.

[mmoccio]

23 minutes ago, fat creason said:

I've never done it myself but I'm pretty sure you can run a server and a client on the same machine, some HB devs use that method to test certain systems and MP features.

I set up a dedicated machine to do this over the weekend. It worked really well and the replays are clean. No Issues. Ive chosen to record my pit view live and then record external replays using the server tracks. Thanks for the help

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by mmoccio

[illegal1984]

I run MP off my MacBook Pro in BootCamp (a dying art). The replays aren't flawless, but are certainly workable if you want to anything cinematic. For in-cockpit live recordings and streaming OBS.

[Nobody Special]

@fat creason one thing I noticed recently when replaying a track, using the head-tracker to look around caused the recorded jester menu function to register incorrect input.

[fat creason]

That may just be a side effect of how inputs work in the SP track playback mode. That's not really my area of expertise, but if we ever look at any more replay related stuff it's all going to be very very low priority. If you need perfect track playback for anything please use the server method mentioned above.

[Cobra847]

As an addendum to the above; there are a few areas we've recently seen that could be causing this, but we are focusing on other areas for now.

[TLTeo]

I feel like this replay thing should go in the FAQ, because it would help with reporting bugs. I had no idea this was a thing until I read this thread.

[Katmandu]

On 5/24/2021 at 9:52 PM, Cobra847 said:

As an addendum to the above; there are a few areas we've recently seen that could be causing this, but we are focusing on other areas for now.

Did you investigate those "few areas" since? There is nothing I would like more for the F-14, than the replay function to be on par with other DCS modules!  

I've taken the F-14 for another trial spin and the replays are still completely broken, the simplest shortest SP mission never ever syncs  

Yes, there is the server track workaround, but it is so limited (jerky animations, wheels fall through concrete, simplified physics), convoluted and laborious (installing and running two instances of DCS) that it's as good as absent.

[illegal1984]

You know, just a shot in the dark and HeatBlur SMEs have the right to shoot this down if I am just incorrect but I noticed my tracks are better when my yaw, roll, and pitch stability is turned off. In particular I noticed the yaw controls tends to deviate the most. By the way that is not a recommendation to fly that way. Tomcat is a much more complex module than its contemporaries. I have no idea how those controls are modeled but knowing some basics about LUA and ED I don’t think there is realistic way to get the module we want and have it work with the way ED processes replays. The way ED processes replays is also flawed to being with. Do you mod or even redo those controls to get all of that to work properly with a flawed system? Not really.

Edited September 19, 2022 by illegal1984

[Katmandu]

16 hours ago, illegal1984 said:

You know, just a shot in the dark and HeatBlur SMEs have the right to shoot this down if I am just incorrect but I noticed my tracks are better when my yaw, roll, and pitch stability is turned off. In particular I noticed the yaw controls tends to deviate the most. By the way that is not a recommendation to fly that way. Tomcat is a much more complex module than its contemporaries. I have no idea how those controls are modeled but knowing some basics about LUA and ED I don’t think there is realistic way to get the module we want and have it work with the way ED processes replays. The way ED processes replays is also flawed to being with. Do you mod or even redo those controls to get all of that to work properly with a flawed system? Not really.

 

Tried tuning off all the stab controls on a simple empty map, take off, turn around and land SP mission and still the same result- 0/5 replays sync. There may be an improvement as on 3 occasions the plane managed to take off at least, but even then, the take off line was different and the improvement may be a placebo

[Nealius]

My theory is still on some kind of interaction between the input-recording method of the replay system itself and AI multicrew. I've done cinematics/photoshoots with replay tracks from nearly every single module available. When the single player or client track doesn't work, the server track does. The key with the server track is that the track file cannot have a cockpit view. I.e. the lack of player inputs on that track file is what makes it reliable. 

So obviously the player input being recorded and re-input in real time is part of the issue, but it's not consistent across modules. 

The second piece of the puzzle is the multicrew AI. I've pointed this out in another discussion, but take the five ED helo modules. Two of them have multicrew AI. Both of those consistently have broken replay tracks while the other 3 helo modules do not. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Nealius

[Spurts]

Yet I have had SP Harrier only missions where the track goes haywire in under 5 minutes.  Multicrew may guarantee a track split, but it is not the only cause.

[Nealius]

No one said it was the only cause. It happens to be one of the three common denominators that the end user can observe. One I didn't mention is framerate/stuttering issues interrupting the input playback. The Harrier replay tracks used to work very well until at some point the flight model was tuned. The same happened to the Mirage2000 as well as the Viggen. Interestingly, some free community mods like the A-4E and Bronco have solid replay tracks, while others like the UH-60L and T-45 don't. Beyond the three common denominators mentioned, there's some other mystery under the hood that no one, not even the devs it seems, has figured out.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Nealius