What kind of stuff do i need to play DCS properly?

[-Skipper-]

I've been reading reviews and whatnot and the Cougars faults + price ruled it out.

 

Don't underestimate the Cougar. Many people complain, because they expect a lot more for the money, but let's be honest, there is no such thing as a perfect stick, unless you buy a truly expensive replica or know how to build a custom stick. Other people just want to point out and justify why the bought an Uber2 mod with HAL-Sensors.

 

And compared to the CH Products, hey, the pots are easier to clean, but they wear down, too.

 

What I personally didn't like on my CH-setup was the way the USB-hardware is set up. Depending on the programming it demands to reinstall drivers each time you load them up and I had to calibrate my stick each time before I started a game. The older stick, gameport, with the ability to permament store programming onboard was a lot easier to use IMHO. :( Besides that, my new (1year old) USB-Fighterstick feels more worn-out than my 14 year old Gameport-Fighterstick. Maybe a monday-product, too, but maybe worth mentioning.

 

PS: Besides that the CH-Setup is a lot more expensive than the cougar. ;) - At least in Germany you can almost buy 2 Cougars for the price of one CH-HOTAS.

Edited October 22, 2008 by -Skipper-

[urze]

Don't underestimate the Cougar. Many people complain, because they expect a lot more for the money, but let's be honest, there is no such thing as a perfect stick, unless you buy a truly expensive replica or know how to build a custom stick. Other people just want to point out and justify why the bought an Uber2 mod with HAL-Sensors.

 

And compared to the CH Products, hey, the pots are easier to clean, but they wear down, too.

 

What I personally didn't like on my CH-setup was the way the USB-hardware is set up. Depending on the programming it demands to reinstall drivers each time you load them up and I had to calibrate my stick each time before I started a game. The older stick, gameport, with the ability to permament store programming onboard was a lot easier to use IMHO. :( Besides that, my new (1year old) USB-Fighterstick feels more worn-out than my 14 year old Gameport-Fighterstick. Maybe a monday-product, too, but maybe worth mentioning.

 

PS: Besides that the CH-Setup is a lot more expensive than the cougar. ;) - At least in Germany you can almost buy 2 Cougars for the price of one CH-HOTAS.

 

This goes to all and not only to Skipper.

 

I'm watching this thread with high interest.

And when you see my webpage and some of my posts you can imagine that I could easily fill pages about the pros and contras of different controllers and setups. (But this is something I want to do in long Winter nights)

 

But one thing I want to say:

After I used a HOTAS for the first time (X36) I was infected. I can not imagine to life without it (read as:In front of the Gaming Rig) .

 

Its the same with Multimonitoring - Headtracker - Rudderpadels - Collective - FFB .....ect.

 

What I want to say is there is always something better and It is very,very hard to decide what will give you the most fun/immersion.

 

As I wrote : Everything has it pros/contras.

After I have added FFB to the X52 I thought that this is near 'perfect' , but now I stick to the Cougar (I love the Grip with it's Buttons), every other stick will feel like a Cheap Toy after you get used to the solid Metal.

(I don't want to speak about the mechanic of the stick..). Now I have to add FFB that is strong enough to hold a 1kg stick in every position.

The same with the rudder:

Ater I get used to FFB at the stick I had to ad it to the paddles (FFB-Steering wheel+Saitek pro rudders -yes you can call me nuts!)

and so on....

 

There is no perfect Setup out there but you can easily enhance your simulation experience with some simple modifications.

 

Start with a ergonomic position - mount your inputs directly on your Chair/ place the Stick between your legs...

This step alone will boost your flying skills more than a fancy stick 20cm in front of a 17" monitor on a 70cm high table.

 

Hope you get my point.

 

Edit: Merged some Typos - Now it should be better to read. I should not eat,write in English and telephone in German at the same time!

Edited October 22, 2008 by urze

[531-Ghost]

What I personally didn't like on my CH-setup was the way the USB-hardware is set up. Depending on the programming it demands to reinstall drivers each time you load them up and I had to calibrate my stick each time before I started a game.

Skipper, were you using Control Manager to calibrate your CH Products? If so, you should only need to calibrate them, once, on install of the hardware/software. Do not calibrate them in Windows Game Controller Options. You'd only have to install Control Manager (drivers), once. Not each time you load a .map (Profile). You can even launch what ever sim you are going to play from Control Manager as you download the assigned .map.

The older stick, gameport, with the ability to permament store programming onboard was a lot easier to use IMHO. Besides that, my new (1year old) USB-Fighterstick feels more worn-out than my 14 year old Gameport-Fighterstick. Maybe a monday-product, too, but maybe worth mentioning.

I say again, CH Products product support is out there, use them . If you are under your 2 year mark you are still under warranty. Talk to them, they listen.

[Peyoteros]

Well, you do need the table and the chair, PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse, HOTAS, TrackIR, Rudder pedals... beer, phone, and the toilet.

;)

Edited October 22, 2008 by Peyoteros

[531-Ghost]

Well, you do need the table and the chair, PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse, HOTAS, TrackIR, Rudder pedals... beer, phone, and the toilet.

;)

 

You could combine the toilet with the chair you know :smilewink: :D Oh, and beer goes without saying :thumbup:

[-Skipper-]

+1 Urze

 

Couldn't agree more!

 

 

 

I used the Cougar internals and the stick on a lengthened connector with the mechanics of a CH-Fighterstick with the pots of an X45 for a long time, now. The best from each world, if you want. It always takes 10 minutes to switch chairs and set up for flight, as I normally work on my PC, but it's a completely different thing than just putting a stick up on the desk.

It may look odd, but it's really fun to fly with and the stick-extension not only greatly adds to immersion, but it also get's you much closer to the real thing, as you can control in put extremely precise.

 

The point is: You won't get a perfect stick from the hardware-shop and you can buy whatever you want, you will run into problems and lacks sooner or later. It's up to you, to overcome them with creativity or to be satisfied accepting the downsides.

 

 

@Ghost:

 

I made a setup that defines all pots to device1. When I load the setup it asks me for an automatic driver installation. As this is not the case with direct mode and with other setups, the CM keeps asking me to confirm new drivers each time I load the setup. Same is for travelling with my PC and Flightgear, which I do a lot. With both, the X52 and the Cougar each time I plug the stick into the original port, it just says that the drivers are updated. With the CH I had to confirm for each part of the driver.

 

Yes, maybe it's faulty, but I read similar comments on other forums, too.

 

The sluggishness is not directly connected to the pots. It has a lot more center play than my unmodded Cougar, for example. I doubt this is covered by the warranty?

Edited October 22, 2008 by -Skipper-

[-Skipper-]

Well, you do need the table and the chair, PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse, HOTAS, TrackIR, Rudder pedals... beer, phone, and the toilet.

;)

 

LOL.

 

You also forgot the wife for cooking and beer-resuplying. :smilewink:

[Peyoteros]

LOL.

 

You also forgot the wife for cooking and beer-resuplying. :smilewink:

 

The phone is to call take away. Wife and simming hobby - extremely rare blend... only for the chosen ones :D

[Heatseeker2K3]

Amazon has the CH fighter stick + pro throttle combo for about £210 (€266) :noexpression: yikes!

The Cougar hotas for £150 (€190).

And the X52 for £90 (€114).

 

The cougar doesnt sound that expensive anymore (in comparison that is) but during my searching this forum was not the only place where people disaproved its guts.

 

Honestly im not going all out with a home pit or anything, at first i was thinking that i could handle BS well enough with a decent stick and the keyboard (you can all throw tomatoes now) but.. im not sure.

 

I dont have that thing for fast moving fixed wing and im more interested in rotary but i dont know what is the best solution for the basic controls (collective, pedals and stick), so im trying to catch some insight from experienced heli simmers.

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

I wouldnt want to be without rudder pedals thats for sure. But I'm into the full blown pit, my current set up isnt exactly full blown but I'm looking at collective options now might mod an old x45.

 

IMO Flight simming is best played with the following:

 

HOTAS

TrackIR

Rudder Pedals

 

throw some custom switches on top of that and it cant get any better except for having a collective control.

[crazysundog]

I just took a first crack at mapping my X52 Hotas with the BS commands, and have realized that I am going to need some kind of additional buttons... even with a clickable cockpit, there are many commands [wingman commands, general non-cockpit commands, etc...] that I would like to have mapped.

 

After a little search, I've come up with a couple choices, the first being the G-15 keyboard http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3498&cl=US,EN

 

and the MS Sidewinder keyboard http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/gaming/productdetails.aspx?pid=102

 

The Ms Sidewinder has many programmable buttons, looks like a good choice.

 

Can anyone shed some light onto the pros/cons of these, I will probably pick one up this weekend.

[DTWD]

I just took a first crack at mapping my X52 Hotas with the BS commands, and have realized that I am going to need some kind of additional buttons... even with a clickable cockpit, there are many commands [wingman commands, general non-cockpit commands, etc...] that I would like to have mapped.

 

After a little search, I've come up with a couple choices, the first being the G-15 keyboard http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3498&cl=US,EN

 

and the MS Sidewinder keyboard http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/gaming/productdetails.aspx?pid=102

 

The Ms Sidewinder has many programmable buttons, looks like a good choice.

 

Can anyone shed some light onto the pros/cons of these, I will probably pick one up this weekend.

 

You do realise that there are a very large number of keys and combinations that can be configured onto the x52 platform don't you? I mean it must be quite easily over a hundred.

 

Regards

Paul

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

^Ditto I think that all the buttons with the exception of the pinkie switch can be mapped at least 6 times and maybe more. With the clucth button I think you can change your profile on the fly as well, although I never have and it seems sketchy to me. I'm looking at two X-keys 128 matrix boards right now to fix my button problem, between that, my X52 and an X45 I'm thinking of using as a collective I should be set for the most part, we'll see................

[crazysundog]

You do realise that there are a very large number of keys and combinations that can be configured onto the x52 platform don't you? I mean it must be quite easily over a hundred.

 

Regards

Paul

 

Yes Paul, I do realize that there are a very large number of button combinations with the X52...

 

But did you realize that binding;

\

Communication menu

E - LWin

Flight - Complete mission and RTB

R - LWin

Flight - Complete mission and rejoin

T - LWin

Toggle formation

Y - LWin

Join up formation

Q - LWin

Attack my target

W - LWin

Cover me

G - LWin

Flight - Attack ground targets

D - LWin

Flight - Attack air defenses

 

 

and,

Ins Engines start-up control panel and levers

Home

Start-up engine

Home - RAlt

Interrupt start-up sequence

End

Stop APU button

E

Engine selector

E - LAlt

Engine Startup/Crank/False Start selector

PageUp

Throttle up (Idle-Medium-Auto-Full)

PageDown

Throttle down (Idle-Medium-Auto-Full)

PageUp - RAlt

Left Throttle up (Idle-Medium-Auto-Full)

PageDown - RAlt

Left Throttle down (Idle-Medium-Auto-Full)

PageUp - RShift

Right Throttle up (Idle-Medium-Auto-Full)

PageDown - RShift

Right Throttle down (Idle-Medium-Auto-Full)

PageUp - RCtrl

Cut-off valve left engine

PageDown - RCtrl

Cut-off valve right engine

R - LShift

Rotor brake

 

 

and,

Esc

End mission

Pause

Pause

Z - LCtrl

Time accelerate

Z - LAlt

Time decelerate

Z - LShift

Time normal

‘

Score window

`

Multiplayer chat - mode All

` - RCtrl

Multiplayer chat - mode Allies

Y - LCtrl

Info bar toggle

Tab - RCtrl - RShift

Get New Plane - respawn

C - LAlt

Clickable mouse cockpit mode On/Off

SysRQ

Screenshot

Pause - RCtrl

Frame rate counter - Service info

Y - LAlt

Info bar coordinate units toggle

P - RShift

Show Pilot Body

Enter - RCtrl

Show controls indicator

 

 

... well, binding these to your HOTAS is a bit of a stretch; talk about playing the piccolo!!:smilewink:

 

Anywho, gonna get the MS Sidewinder tommorow, I'll let y'all know how it turns out!

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

^Not really, thats the point of having programming software in the first place, just so you can achieve that. If you think thats a lot of work then you're the kinda guy that needs a single joystick, rather than a X52, Cougar, or CH set up. The whole point of a HOTAS is in its name Hands On Throttle And Stick............... at least IMO!

 

Personally I like flipping real switches and try to avoid using a keyboard at all costs (even though its impossible at the moment). For me its not only playing the game its immersion too.

[baksie]

The Game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry could not resist

[burnzoire]

^Not really, thats the point of having programming software in the first place, just so you can achieve that. If you think thats a lot of work then you're the kinda guy that needs a single joystick, rather than a X52, Cougar, or CH set up. The whole point of a HOTAS is in its name Hands On Throttle And Stick............... at least IMO!

 

Personally I like flipping real switches and try to avoid using a keyboard at all costs (even though its impossible at the moment). For me its not only playing the game its immersion too.

 

HOTAS isn't meant to replace cockpit switches. They're meant to be used for essential functions just like with real aircraft. I've only assigned commands found on the real HOTAS of the KA-50, so I have heaps of space left on my X-52. I don't plan on adding anything more (beyond push-to-talk) though, as that's what the clickable cockpit (and keyboard) is for.

 

Mind you my Falcon AF profile is pretty nuts, using all 3 modes and pinkies. I guess there needs to be a compromise to cover switches that need to be accessed quicker than using a mouse/keyboard.

[Kifaru]

I have an X52 and basically break the 3 modes on it down to:

 

Mode 1 -A/G

Mode 2 -A/A

Mode 3 -NAV (including take off and landing set-ups i.e. Flaps, gear, brakes etc... and engine Start/stop commands)

 

In all modes i have buttons mapped to essentials such as chaff, flare, air brake etc...Things that i would need asap in given situations.

 

Obviously this wont fully apply to BS due to its complexity but ill adapt it somehow....i hope :) I can imagine i'm going to be doing a lot of keyboard mashing anyway.

 

IMO it's almost the best part about a new sim. Getting my gear running as efficient as possible along side it, cant wait! :)

[burnzoire]

That's how my F4AF profile works - I reckon we're both using ruprecht's ;)

[crazysundog]

^Not really, thats the point of having programming software in the first place, just so you can achieve that. If you think thats a lot of work then you're the kinda guy that needs a single joystick, rather than a X52, Cougar, or CH set up. The whole point of a HOTAS is in its name Hands On Throttle And Stick............... at least IMO!

 

Personally I like flipping real switches and try to avoid using a keyboard at all costs (even though its impossible at the moment). For me its not only playing the game its immersion too.

 

:pilotfly:

 

There are nine pages of commands, (well 8 1/2 really!) and I am definately not the kind of guy who would try to cram them all onto a HOTAS when there is a perfectly good MS keyboard out there that I can use to my advantage; by programming another 90 one-stroke commands!! This is my hobby, not my profession... and I definately dont have the time to sit around wondering what 'kinda guy' anybody else is!!

 

:D

 

Someday I may have the ambition to build a simpit, but right now its about simplicity, I just dont have much free time, because I work hard IRL!!

 

:weight_lift_2:

[nemises]

yeah, can't see the point of mapping so many of the cockpit switched to HOTAS..

 

Clickable cockpit really does simplify things in that manner (well..."simplify" is maybe a bit of a stretch ;) )

 

..I use the X52 clutch to change between profiles on the fly and it works perfectly well...you just hold it down and use the main hat on the stick to navigate through the files system and select whatever profile you want, and press right on the hat to load it.

 

Only down side is, I dont think you can do the same for the saitek pedals.

[crazysundog]

Personally, I tried to stick to the 'real' ka50 controls on the X52, and broke it down into the 3 modes; Nav [includes takeoff/landing] Attack, and Autopilot. (i.e. Hat3 will adjust the shkval gate and fov size in Nav mode, and Hat3 will also adjust the landing light if I have the pinkie shift depressed. In Attack mode, it will be similar, but the pinkie shift will select hardpoints instead.) I haven't finished mapping my stick yet, but I'll post it when its done. The keyboard I will buy today will give me the option to have the Datalink panel, or PVI mapped to the NumPad.

[DTWD]

LOL I wasn't advising you to try and map all the controls, I don't personally think you need to.

 

I too split my config for FC into 3 modes:

 

Start up/Shutdown/Take Off/Landing/Navigation/Refuling

 

A/A

 

A/G

 

I will plan on doing something similar for BS, but seeing as it's a clickable cockpit I will be using the mouse/mouse mini joystick to use a lot of the on screen buttons as well.

 

The full start up procedure appears to take about five minutes, that isn't something you need to do while your flying so that doesn't need to go on the HOTAS. The only reason I have such a large variety of keys mapped on my FC profiles is because it doesn't have a clickable cockpit. Besides clicking the virtual buttons and seeing them animate will be part of the fun. Only the items that are required to be actioned quickly in the heat of battle (or an emergancy) will be bound to my x52, everything else will stay in the VC.

 

I just can't see the point in buying a brand new keyboard if all your going to use it for is binds, you might as well be using your x52 if your going to do that as it will feel more real that way.

 

Regards

Paul

[leafer]

Anyone knows what kind of POTS are in saitek HOTAS? As much as I hate the way they look, I think I'll end up with one.

[urze]

Hall sensors in the Stick base and a conventional one in the Throttle.

IMHO the most accurate stick for affordable money out there.