Petro's target list too generic

[Paganus]

I know it's a WiP.

 

Selecting from APC1 or APC2 doesn't allow me tell Petro to target the more deadly BMP2 before the MTLB, since I don't now which is 1 or 2.

[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, Paganus said:

Selecting from APC1 or APC2 doesn't allow me tell Petro to target the more deadly BMP2 before the MTLB, since I don't now which is 1 or 2.

 

According to the quickstart guide, the target list is sorted by threat level, so air defense targets will appear higher than tanks, and so on.  But your post brings up a valid question.

Is the threat table Petrovich uses (or will use as the model develops) a list that includes a descending order of every DCS unit entity, where even the BMP-1, BMP-2, and BMP-3 are ranked against each other?
Or is it simply ranked by category, so that all DCS units that are classified as an APC are ranked equally with each other in the threat table, and that the target list order of same category targets is some other factor, such as distance to the helicopter, the order in which they were detected, or the distance left/right from the azimuth Petrovich was ordered to scan?

If it's the former, I can see how that could be highly subjective depending on a slew of other factors such as terrain, time of day, nature of the mission, etc.  However if it's the latter than yeah, I can see how that can really limit a player's situational awareness.  I guess we'll have to wait for new Petrovich mechanics and/or additional documentation detailing the logic.

[Paganus]

They have IFV and APC.. My 1st example is somewhat flawed because BMP2 is an IFV, MTLB is an APC, but it still applies since a BMP1 and a BM2 are both IFV's. I'd rather attack the BMP2 first. 

 

I will pay attention to the sort next time. Thanks for the info.

[sorcer3r]

5 hours ago, Paganus said:

They have IFV and APC.. My 1st example is somewhat flawed because BMP2 is an IFV, MTLB is an APC, but it still applies since a BMP1 and a BM2 are both IFV's. I'd rather attack the BMP2 first. 

 

I will pay attention to the sort next time. Thanks for the info.

On what distance should the AI gunner be able to identify the unit ? If I look through the scope we are danger close until I can ID the the ground unit

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, sorcer3r said:

On what distance should the AI gunner be able to identify the unit ? 

 

Well that's you. A trained Mi24p gunner should recognize threats while looking through the scope at 7-8km, maybe even further out. 

[Northstar98]

Well, I guess it's difficult because both the BMP-1 and BMP-2 share the same hull, you should be able to identify them based on the turret though (namely, the BMP-2 has one that's larger).

 

Maybe it can be tied into skill and/or distance, so if you're close he'll be able to identify stuff specifically, and further out only general category.

[Lurker]

33 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Well, I guess it's difficult because both the BMP-1 and BMP-2 share the same hull, you should be able to identify them based on the turret though (namely, the BMP-2 has one that's larger).

 

 

You're right. I think it's fine at the current detail levels. Once he get's some voiceovers he might say "Oh shit, a Shilka!" or something along those lines if it's something really recognizable\scary

[iLOVEwindmills]

11 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

 

According to the quickstart guide, the target list is sorted by threat level, so air defense targets will appear higher than tanks, and so on.  But your post brings up a valid question.

Is the threat table Petrovich uses (or will use as the model develops) a list that includes a descending order of every DCS unit entity, where even the BMP-1, BMP-2, and BMP-3 are ranked against each other?
Or is it simply ranked by category, so that all DCS units that are classified as an APC are ranked equally with each other in the threat table, and that the target list order of same category targets is some other factor, such as distance to the helicopter, the order in which they were detected, or the distance left/right from the azimuth Petrovich was ordered to scan?

If it's the former, I can see how that could be highly subjective depending on a slew of other factors such as terrain, time of day, nature of the mission, etc.  However if it's the latter than yeah, I can see how that can really limit a player's situational awareness.  I guess we'll have to wait for new Petrovich mechanics and/or additional documentation detailing the logic.

 

 

I'm not even sure this happens right now, I've had tank targets show up above ZU23.

 

I think it makes sense if he ranks them from distance to boresight. A target at the center would be priority, then scroll up for targets to the left and down for targets on the right of boresight. It happened quite frequently that I'm lined up on a tank, then Petrovich gives me 3 tank targets and selecting the first will be the furthest to the side, requiring changing your approach.

 

Then add an option where he will prioritize AA over everything else and that should make things a lot easier.

 

 

[Raptor9]

31 minutes ago, iLOVEwindmills said:

I'm not even sure this happens right now, I've had tank targets show up above ZU23.

 

Yeah, I haven't messed around with Petrovich that much to notice. But that's where the subjectiveness comes in.

 

In some instances, a modern main battle tank like the T-80 is a much bigger threat in my mind than a ZU-23 because he can shoot an ATGM or his main gun at me from further out than the ZU-23 can effectively engage me. And without an LWR like in the Ka-50, you won't even know you're getting hit with a laser rangefinder until a 125mm tank round disintegrates your helicopter.

 

Although I think that possibility is less likely in the Hind because it seems to be more adept at high-speed attacks compared to the low-speed/hover fight where you are more vulnerable to tank main guns/ATGMs.  Compared to the Ka-50 which is equally-effective at both.

 

So yeah, I'm looking forward to a comprehensive manual that more thoroughly explains Petrovich's targeting logic so we can leverage that info into our tactics.

[evanf117]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:27 PM, Raptor9 said:

 

According to the quickstart guide, the target list is sorted by threat level, so air defense targets will appear higher than tanks, and so on.  But your post brings up a valid question.

Is the threat table Petrovich uses (or will use as the model develops) a list that includes a descending order of every DCS unit entity, where even the BMP-1, BMP-2, and BMP-3 are ranked against each other?
Or is it simply ranked by category, so that all DCS units that are classified as an APC are ranked equally with each other in the threat table, and that the target list order of same category targets is some other factor, such as distance to the helicopter, the order in which they were detected, or the distance left/right from the azimuth Petrovich was ordered to scan?

If it's the former, I can see how that could be highly subjective depending on a slew of other factors such as terrain, time of day, nature of the mission, etc.  However if it's the latter than yeah, I can see how that can really limit a player's situational awareness.  I guess we'll have to wait for new Petrovich mechanics and/or additional documentation detailing the logic.

i dont know it its threat level, i think its what he detects first, i have had dudes with AK's higher than BTR's

[Gretsch_Man]

Would be nice if the player could tell Petrovich which kind of target to prioritize when searching. For example, been able to tell him to "search for AA threads" would be really helpful. 

[S. Low]

I’m still confused though because I’ll get 3 AAA in the list but if I select the top one invariably it’s the furthest away. That’s not the highest threat 

[Northstar98]

19 hours ago, S. Low said:

I’m still confused though because I’ll get 3 AAA in the list but if I select the top one invariably it’s the furthest away. That’s not the highest threat 

 

That's something they could do - order the list via proximity.

 

So Petrovich searches the commanded area, and then list of targets depending on how close they are to the helicopter at time of search. 

[Qnnrad]

+1
Absolutely need 1) area scan option, 2) more feedback from Petrovich (distance, information about found threats etc) and 3) prioritization options.