Universal military aircraft homecockpit project

[Viper1970]

The POVs are working perfectly.

I am currently making my AH-1Z Viper grip.

When it is finished, I will post photos of it.

[Viper1970]

So, the AH-1Z Viper / UH-1Y Venom Cyclic is a little further along. I have integrated all POV's and buttons, but the triggers are still missing. Also the lettering is still missing and the POV's still need to be painted. I still only used FDM, even for the hats. As long as the result looks like this, I don't have to go to the trouble of completely cleaning my Anycubic Photon again every time, just because of the print of a few POV hats. Everything will be painted over anyway.

The handle here is also not yet fully screwed (only two screws, one at the top and one at the bottom), so there is still a gap visible between the handle buckles.

After all these things are done, the whole Cyclic will be painted satin clear to seal the lettering (water stickers) and give the whole handle an even nicer satin look. I will do this work for all HOTAS/HOCAS together as soon as the weather is still good enough to work on the balcony.

The cyclic is not 100% like the original, as I only made everything from photo templates, but I'm happy with it so far.

In the links are pictures of the original cockpits of the AH-1Z Viper and the UH-1Y Venom for comparison.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

The project is still going on, although there is not much to report at the moment. Right now, I'm printing countless of my self-developed POV mechanics for these China 5 directional switches I bought.

They work quite well for my needs, although they are really not top notch. But using more advanced Alps or even OTTO POVs is too expensive for me.

The pressure point or behavior of the POV's during operation is roughly comparable to that of the old Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS coolies, except that I can implement a much smaller design of the POV's here and don't need as much space inside the case.

It is also possible to set the function between 5 and 4 way POV by using different stamps.

At the moment I'm also doing the AH-64D/E POV's for the cyclic. I mostly use hats that can be found on Thingiverse and adapt them to my needs, respectively if none could be found I do them by myself. The right side ones are for the Apache, the ones on the left were for the Viper/Venom.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Viper1970

[Thadiun Okona]

4 hours ago, Viper1970 said:

The project is still going on, although there is not much to report at the moment. Right now, I'm printing countless of my self-developed POV mechanics for these China 5 directional switches I bought.

They work quite well for my needs, although they are really not top notch. But using more advanced Alps or even OTTO POVs is too expensive for me.

The pressure point or behavior of the POV's during operation is roughly comparable to that of the old Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS coolies, except that I can implement a much smaller design of the POV's here and don't need as much space inside the case.

It is also possible to set the function between 5 and 4 way POV by using different stamps.

At the moment I'm also doing the AH-64D/E POV's for the cyclic. I mostly use hats that can be found on Thingiverse and adapt them to my needs, respectively if none could be found I do them by myself. The right side ones are for the Apache, the ones on the left were for the Viper/Venom.

 

I dislike the Alps 4/5 ways, they are mushy and have such long travel they're goofy to actuate with the hats going to high angles. Ottos/Mason etc feel great but are way to spendy but there are great ones you can print that are easy to make and if you use the *right tact switches feel better than what TM,  Virpil, VKB, Winwing etc use in theirs. You would need to revamp your grips cause they have barrel bodies and are built similar to TM's that mimic Otto etc. 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3452944 

If you use the normal generic 260gf switches they still feel mushy like Thrustmaster's cause that's what they use however you can buy 500Gf branded versions of the same switch and they feel a lot better. *Omron B3F-1006 

https://www.newark.com/omron-electronic-components/b3f-1006/switch-tactile-spst-no-50ma-though/dp/89C4132

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/B3F-1006?qs=wE98CiVmOw78gCH%2BNiS1qg%3D%3D

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/B3F-1006/1129851

[Bucic]

16 hours ago, Thadiun Okona said:

I dislike the Alps 4/5 ways, they are mushy and have such long travel they're goofy to actuate with the hats going to high angles. Ottos/Mason etc feel great but are way to spendy but there are great ones you can print that are easy to make and if you use the *right tact switches feel better than what TM,  Virpil, VKB, Winwing etc use in theirs. You would need to revamp your grips cause they have barrel bodies and are built similar to TM's that mimic Otto etc. 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3452944 

If you use the normal generic 260gf switches they still feel mushy like Thrustmaster's cause that's what they use however you can buy 500Gf branded versions of the same switch and they feel a lot better. *Omron B3F-1006 

https://www.newark.com/omron-electronic-components/b3f-1006/switch-tactile-spst-no-50ma-though/dp/89C4132

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/B3F-1006?qs=wE98CiVmOw78gCH%2BNiS1qg%3D%3D

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/B3F-1006/1129851

That's a touchy subject. I for one don't even consider the naming "tactile switch" to be even correct as other switches provide a great deal of tactility, in many cases better for the purpose. 4-way switches are a good example. People call the clicky ones (I'd call them poppy) tactile while in many cases in real aircraft 4 way switches are more akin to miniature joysticks with forces proportional to deflection with only a small barely audible "Kling" at the actuation (contact) point. Russian aircraft trim switches are like that, I've tested it myself on at least one occasion.

Same for general stick buttons. A progressive (exponential?) actuation force with contact point at the hard end of the travel may provide a better tactility than those popping abominations.

What's your take, @Viper1970? What do you usually use? Do you have any notes on the types of switches in particular locations in particular aircraft?

 

[krazyj]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:08 PM, Viper1970 said:

The project is still going on, although there is not much to report at the moment. Right now, I'm printing countless of my self-developed POV mechanics for these China 5 directional switches I bought.

They work quite well for my needs, although they are really not top notch. But using more advanced Alps or even OTTO POVs is too expensive for me.

The pressure point or behavior of the POV's during operation is roughly comparable to that of the old Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS coolies, except that I can implement a much smaller design of the POV's here and don't need as much space inside the case.

It is also possible to set the function between 5 and 4 way POV by using different stamps.

At the moment I'm also doing the AH-64D/E POV's for the cyclic. I mostly use hats that can be found on Thingiverse and adapt them to my needs, respectively if none could be found I do them by myself. The right side ones are for the Apache, the ones on the left were for the Viper/Venom.

 

Looks fantastic, excuse me for probably beating a dead horse, but are the stl's available anywhere ? for cyclic and coll and buttons ? TIA

[Viper1970]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:54 AM, Bucic said:

That's a touchy subject. I for one don't even consider the naming "tactile switch" to be even correct as other switches provide a great deal of tactility, in many cases better for the purpose. 4-way switches are a good example. People call the clicky ones (I'd call them poppy) tactile while in many cases in real aircraft 4 way switches are more akin to miniature joysticks with forces proportional to deflection with only a small barely audible "Kling" at the actuation (contact) point. Russian aircraft trim switches are like that, I've tested it myself on at least one occasion.

Same for general stick buttons. A progressive (exponential?) actuation force with contact point at the hard end of the travel may provide a better tactility than those popping abominations.

What's your take, @Viper1970? What do you usually use? Do you have any notes on the types of switches in particular locations in particular aircraft?

 

I use the one that are simple to get, do not cost that much and work

I don't have a very big budget, although that may sometimes seem different. Just the hardware I bought in the last two years was a huge expense for me (I haven't put that much into the hobby in the last 25 years) and was only possible because I sold a lot of stuff from my old hobby (RC cars, planes and helos) for it.

The rest that I have, the large collection of old HOTAS (TM FLCS and TQS or Suncom F-15 sticks and throttles) I bought over the years for very little money at flea markets or Ebay.

That's why money always plays a big role for me and that's why I also try to implement things as cheaply as possible, as long as they then still work satisfactorily.

The tight budget was also the driving force behind the HOTAS systems I created. I really wanted to have the different inputs for some aircraft, but I don't have the money to just buy them from companies which make such things like eg. Komodo Simulations (AH-64/OH-58). Sometimes you even couldn't get the "right" controls anywhere (eg. AH-1F Tow Cobra, Zulu Cobra and Venom or the Osprey), so I was looking for a solution to somehow do it myself.

For me it is not so important if the pressure point of a switch is exactly like in the original, but I would like to hold the "right" controls in my hands for the airplane that I'm flying at the moment.

On 2/18/2023 at 5:53 PM, krazyj said:

Looks fantastic, excuse me for probably beating a dead horse, but are the stl's available anywhere ? for cyclic and coll and buttons ? TIA

I already sent you a PM at SimHQ

Edited February 20, 2023 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

So, the last lot of the RC stuff (my two drones) is also sold and thus again some money for the pit was left.

I decided to buy a 34'' UWQHD (3.440 x 1.440) curved monitor for the 2D-display and a 22'' FullHD monitor (1920 x 1080) for the mainpanel MFD's, gauges and the rest of the instruments. The latter disappears behind the panel and only the cutouts in the panel then show the instruments that are swapped out on this TFT.

I didn't want to go too high with the resolution so that the performance is at least reasonably good in pancake mode. Unfortunately, even with an RTX3090, the whole thing is no longer really smooth under VR, or you have to reduce the graphics so much that it's no longer fun. For this reason, I wanted to have a proper backup next to VR, where playing is still fun and that's why I wanted to continue to have the possibility to play properly on the monitor with the use of the TrackIR.

I hope for performance improvements through multicore and/or Vulkan, but I don't really believe in it. I think there will be again other, not absolutely necessary graphical gimmicks implemented, which will cancel out the advantage of those new features again and you will end up back where we are now.

An RTX4090 is too expensive for me at the moment, and I don't see the point of burning money again. Until last year, the 3090 was the non plus ultra for VR and now nothing really works with it anymore, or you have to tweak like stupid and also have to waive a lot of the graphical details to make it work smoothly.

The old 19'' TFT's, which I had previously arranged at the cockpit as triple view, are stored as spare parts for my "command unit". Since I also play retro simulations at this command unit, a curved monitor makes little sense there and if I play modern fleet or tank simulations there, I can also connect the three 19'' monitors to a triple view, if it makes sense for the game.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

Ok guys,

the end of the project is really here, unfortunately. I'm separating from my partner and in the course of this I have to turn everything I can into money.

This is the second time now, first my 16 year marriage broke up and now this 11 year partnership. If I manage to get back on my feet, I might start again with such a project.

Until then, there may be all the DCS modules that I have always wanted and maybe they are then already out of Early Access.

Thanks to all who accompanied my project and I wish you success with your own stuff.

 

Viper1970

alias Sven

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Viper1970

[Bucic]

3 hours ago, Viper1970 said:

Ok guys,

the end of the project is really here, unfortunately. I'm separating from my partner and in the course of this I have to turn everything I can into money.

This is the second time now, first my 16 year marriage broke up and now this 11 year partnership. If I manage to get back on my feet, I might start again with such a project.

Until then, there may be all the DCS modules that I have always wanted and maybe they are then already out of Early Access.

Thanks to all who accompanied my project and I wish you success with your own stuff.

 

Viper1970

alias Sven

 

 

Stay strong, man! Thank you for sharing your work.

[Bog9y]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:00 PM, Viper1970 said:

Ok guys,

the end of the project is really here, unfortunately. I'm separating from my partner and in the course of this I have to turn everything I can into money.

This is the second time now, first my 16 year marriage broke up and now this 11 year partnership. If I manage to get back on my feet, I might start again with such a project.

Until then, there may be all the DCS modules that I have always wanted and maybe they are then already out of Early Access.

Thanks to all who accompanied my project and I wish you success with your own stuff.

 

Viper1970

alias Sven

 

 

Sorry to hear that Sven. Been there myself. Keep your chin up and move on to bigger and better things! 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Bog9y

[agrasyuk]

This is very sad to hear. I really enjoyed following your journey a lot. Best wishes. 

[badwookie]

Sorry to hear. I hope things go as smoothly as possible.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us!

[Vinc_Vega]

Sorry to hear that. Keep your head up right now!

If you need any help or support, PM me. I'm living next to you in Bavaria.

Regards, Vinc

[Tehrawk]

Really sorry to hear that Sven. I loved following your ridiculously ambitious project. It really is an inspiration. Hopefully you can land on your feet soon, and get back to it.

[slamraamproductions]

Hi Viper,

I wish you all the best in your life and sorry to hear from your break up. I have learnt a lot from your thread and personal messages regarding the cockpit building hobby. And thanks again for sharing the Apache stick and Collective stl's. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by slamraamproductions

[Johan4668]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:03 AM, Viper1970 said:

I am currently making documentation of the pinouts of all the Thrustmaster devices in their original state that I will be using on my project.

This is useful because after the rebuild, there is no way to accurately recreate the original state.

Maybe this is also useful for anyone else here.

More will follow.

This is the grip pinout of the TM Hornet grip. I used mostly the same kind of term here, like TM used for the old FLCS, F22Pro and the Cougar. I found this a more practical way as the real button designations. It's easier to note H2D=brn, as Castle Switch down=brown .

 

 

 

Can i ask where to buy this? 

i made the KG13c and like it in there..

 

[Viper1970]

I am very happy to inform you that we have found together again after all. However, in the future I will no longer pursue my hobby to such an extreme and spend more time with my wife.

Now we will fly to India for a short vacation at the beginning of May and then I will tackle the project again. She wants it too, because it has always been my big dream and therefore I should not give it up. But as I said, I won't push it that far now.

The partnership is simply more important and it always has been, but the Covid lockdown and the associated constant being together in a confined space was simply not good for the partnership.

[Hempstead]

Congrats!

[Vinc_Vega]

Good to hear that!

Wish you all the best

[MIghtymoo]

8 hours ago, Viper1970 said:

I am very happy to inform you that we have found together again after all. However, in the future I will no longer pursue my hobby to such an extreme and spend more time with my wife.

Now we will fly to India for a short vacation at the beginning of May and then I will tackle the project again. She wants it too, because it has always been my big dream and therefore I should not give it up. But as I said, I won't push it that far now.

The partnership is simply more important and it always has been, but the Covid lockdown and the associated constant being together in a confined space was simply not good for the partnership.

I have followed your project with amazement. 
Happy to hear you and your wife found each other again.

Remember the key to a good life is balance.

Best of luck with both wife and project.

Edited April 13, 2023 by MIghtymoo

[Viper1970]

So that we can also "simulate" a little together and she can't really do that much with flying, but likes car racing, I got hold of an old Logitech Driving Force Pro for 20 bucks on ebay.

This is now the "living room steering wheel", where you can drive relaxed on the couch with the HTPC on the TV.

Of course I had to rework it right away and wired the shifter pedals in parallel with the sequential shifter. This left two functions that could now be used for an attached rally handbrake and the starter button. I also modded the pedals with aluminium ones and added additional springs for a progressive brake force. I also added two shifter pedals on top of the original shifters at the back of the wheel. Repainted it is too, of course.

I just can't help it, original is boring!

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Viper1970

[Rick50]

 

There are tons of choices for racing/driving simulations and games. Two in particular that appeal to me are:

Assetto Corsa:

this is... it's kind of the "DCS" of racing. Great realistic driving physics, very much mod friendly, tons of professionally made cars, fairly low cost on Steam. Unlike DCS, there's a LOT of content in official content, and even MASSIVE amount content from free and 3rd party content. Your top 10 favorite cars, whether racing or street, are probably available for you. There's also a very large number and growing of racing tracks,  also official and 3rd party, and street circuits, and even "free roam" areas. 

 

BeamNG: 

This started off many years ago as a very basic crash physics simulation... but has continually evolved into a simulator that can be used for a great many things. A lot of "silly driving" events, to be sure, but also serious rally driving on rough terrain, jumps, high speed driving through traffic, realistic terrain/roads that resemble real world locations, and other terrain that have little resemblance to the real world. Wanna try "drifting" with a front drive car? BeamNG. want to do a police chase, either as the police or badguy? BeamNG. Try offroad driving in very rough terrain? BeamNG! Add a rocket engine to a bus and drag race against a proper drag car? BeamNG! 3 wheel micro truck, or 8 wheel military transport truck? Or 400 ton mining dump truck? Jungle race or city race with traffic? All BeamNG and so much more.

[Viper1970]

I own both and like them a lot. Especially Assetto Corsa, but mainly the first one (not Competizione).

I like to drive street cars like the Ferrari 288 GTO (my absolute favorite), the Lamborghini Countach or even older cars from the 60s and 70s.

I worked for many years as a car mechanic in classic car restoration, repairing and tuning cars like the Alfa Giulia Sprint GTA and GTAm, Triumph TR3, TR4, Aston Martin DB4 and 5, Jaguar E-Type, De Tomaso Pantera etc., just to name a few that were used on the road or in classic races.

I enjoyed this work very much, unfortunately I could not continue it due to health reasons.

Beam Drive NG is also fantastic. I also like Dirt Rally and Rally 2 and the good old Simbin racing sims GTR2, GT Legends, the Power and Glory mod and Race07 which I use with the "Bierbuden" mods. Grand Prix Legends is also a very good racing sim, even though it's quite old. But there is a very good mod package for it.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Viper1970

[Rick50]

 

I'm very glad for your relationship! Sometimes just being invited to be included goes a long way.

 

https://www.racedepartment.com/  has a lot of discussion  and content. Also you  could  check out Chris Hayes' Youtube channel for ideas and inspiration:

https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisHaye

He does have some serious hardware setups, and as nice as they are, it's not needed to have all that spendy to have a good time doing a race! But he has nice takes on what constitutes an enjoyable racing experience, and that it often doesn't need 1000hp and thousands of kilos of downforce, sometimes 150 hp in a featherweight spec frame can really get a driver going, when there's zero hardware advantage, it's all down to skills and strategy, outhinking your opponent!

I  love your choices of cars, clearly you aren't just a flight enthusiast but a true gearhead as well!  I don't ever hear anyone IRL mention the 288 GTO or Pantera, cars deserving of sooo much more attention IMO... but that's ok!  Grand Prix Legends... amazing what the mod community managed to create for it years later, the sense of speed, lack of grip, an incredible experience!