reported earlier Shooting Down Missiles flying M2.5 off bore.

[Breakshot]

Seems like the F18 is better than Iron Dome air defense that can track and snap intercept missiles off bore, at all aspects and speed.

 

How is this still possible? I can understand a head-on long range shot, but this? I have dozen examples, but this one is from after yesterdays patch.

 

It makes A2A a joke right now.

Tacview-20210722-215811-DCS-PACT2021_6v6_GUDAUTA-KRYMSK_2.7_1.zip.acmi

Edited July 23, 2021 by Breakshot

[Hulkbust44]

Seems like the F18 is better than Iron Dome air defense that can track and snap intercept missiles off bore, at all aspects and speed.
 
How is this still possible? I can understand a head-on long range shot, but this? I have dozen example, but this one is from after yesterdays patch.
 
It makes A2A a joke right now.
Tacview-20210722-215811-DCS-PACT2021_6v6_GUDAUTA-KRYMSK_2.7_1.zip.acmi

Are you talking about the HOB capabilities of the 9X?

Mobius708

[Breakshot]

No I am talking about Aim-120

[Hulkbust44]

No I am talking about Aim-120

The AMRAAMs is still a HOB missile, it's just initially limited by the radar gimbal for target acquisition. You can launch them HOB, but they will need to expend more energy to make the initial turn, like JDAMs too.

Mobius708

[Breakshot]

2 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

The AMRAAMs is still a HOB missile, it's just initially limited by the radar gimbal for target acquisition. You can launch them HOB, but they will need to expend more energy to make the initial turn, like JDAMs too.

Mobius708
 

Are you even understanding my query? 

 

@ED,

 

Is it the intention of DCS dynamics to make the F18 capable of radar tracking and easily shooting down any incoming missiles in any conditions and parameters? If the answer is no, then something needs to be done about this. I was under the impression it was patched recently, but seems its still a thing...

Edited July 22, 2021 by Breakshot

[Hulkbust44]

Are you even understanding my query? 

I am not, you never made it clear.

Mobius708

A large RCS Missile sub 10 should easily be found and intercepted by an AMRAAM. At that point it's Mad-dog off the rail.

Mobius708

[maxTRX]

20 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said:

I am not, you never made it clear.

Mobius708
 

A large RCS Missile sub 10 should easily be found and intercepted by an AMRAAM. At that point it's Mad-dog off the rail.

Mobius708
 

 

Oh, that's outstanding... I can continue cycling through and shooting down my own Amraams, yea!   

Well, I was planning on doing some tests related to this 'feature', hoping the fix was done... 

[Breakshot]

Its a joke currently because half the 18 pilots don't even realize they are shooting missiles down. They just fox a radar contact and the 120s do the rest. Intercepting M2.5 missiles with 100% accuracy.

I guess 120 really has a better radar than a modern fighter to make that intercept.

If that was the case, ships would not need CIWS. Just load a stack of 120s on deck. Haha

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

[Hulkbust44]

Its a joke currently because half the 18 pilots don't even realize they are shooting missiles down. They just fox a radar contact and the 120s do the rest. Intercepting M2.5 missiles with 100% accuracy.

I guess 120 really has a better radar than a modern fighter to make that intercept.

If that was the case, ships would not need CIWS. Just load a stack of 120s on deck. Haha

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

The Navy does use the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow and SM-2. The NASAMS SAM battery uses AIM-120s, we actually just got this in DCS.

Mobius708

Its a joke currently because half the 18 pilots don't even realize they are shooting missiles down. They just fox a radar contact and the 120s do the rest. Intercepting M2.5 missiles with 100% accuracy.

I guess 120 really has a better radar than a modern fighter to make that intercept.

If that was the case, ships would not need CIWS. Just load a stack of 120s on deck. Haha

Отправлено с моего STV100-2 через Tapatalk

I would also note that the Phoneix was built to intercept bombers and missiles. The AMRAAM has a better radar than the 54 and it has no problem intercepting med-hi RCS missiles.

Mobius708

[Dr. Anti-Vehicle]

1 hour ago, Hulkbust44 said:

The Navy does use the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow and SM-2. The NASAMS SAM battery uses AIM-120s, we actually just got this in DCS.

Mobius708

I would also note that the Phoneix was built to intercept bombers and missiles. The AMRAAM has a better radar than the 54 and it has no problem intercepting med-hi RCS missiles.

Mobius708
 

I guess at the end of day, the question here is how sensitive Hornet radar should be to missiles. Of course there is always the possibility theoretically, but it seems like many players do not feel this is an accurately enough presentation. To me personally though, it somewhat makes the game dull because I can tell when enemy missile is off the rail in almost every engagement. I am no military expert, but I kinda feel this is shouldn't be this way.

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, Hulkbust44 said:

The Navy does use the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow and SM-2. The NASAMS SAM battery uses AIM-120s, we actually just got this in DCS.

Mobius708

I would also note that the Phoneix was built to intercept bombers and missiles. The AMRAAM has a better radar than the 54 and it has no problem intercepting med-hi RCS missiles.

Mobius708
 

 

I would focus on the Hornet's radar first.  If certain features are not or cannot be modeled properly (perhaps there's a plan to model them later), the devs need to find a way to compensate for deficiencies and create a radar and fire control systems that would make 'some' sense in the RW.

Currently, some Hornet pilots might not even be aware that their own missiles create indistinguishable tracks, since most Amraams are fired from a fairly long distance and immediately go to loft profile. Once the missile lofts, it goes above the radar's scan limits for most of their flight. When the missiles are launched from short distance and go direct target, their tracks immediately show up on radar. The radar treats them as any other tracks.

[Hulkbust44]

I guess at the end of day, the question here is how sensitive Hornet radar should be to missiles. Of course there is always the possibility theoretically, but it seems like many players do not feel this is an accurately enough presentation. To me personally though, it somewhat makes the game dull because I can tell when enemy missile is off the rail in almost every engagement. I am no military expert, but I kinda feel this is shouldn't be this way.

With a high b-sweep as you would have with narrower azimuths, you also have cycling PRFs if set to interleaved. With the combination of these I don't see why a missile wouldn't be picked up by the radar, except at extreme ranges. The speed of the missiles also help as they have a much larger and easy to identify doppler shift.

Mobius708

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, Hulkbust44 said:

With a high b-sweep as you would have with narrower azimuths, you also have cycling PRFs if set to interleaved. With the combination of these I don't see why a missile wouldn't be picked up by the radar, except at extreme ranges. The speed of the missiles also help as they have a much larger and easy to identify doppler shift.

Mobius708
 

It's not a matter of radar detection capabilities. It's what it does afterwards. I'm just going wild with my imagination... radar settings, processing and few other things that I could only speculate about. SMEs won't probably be too chatty about this stuff. Heck, they don't get too chatty with us about anything, hehe. I'm sure they could give the devs some hints.

[Harker]

For what it's worth, I'm just going to say that spoke to a IRL pilot and I inquired about the ability to see A2A missiles (your own or not) on your radar and I was told that it's technically possible, but highly unlikely and not really a thing. Mainly because the reflected signal is too weak to rise above the noise or the return is filtered out due to the missile being too fast.

[Breakshot]

16 hours ago, Harker said:

For what it's worth, I'm just going to say that spoke to a IRL pilot and I inquired about the ability to see A2A missiles (your own or not) on your radar and I was told that it's technically possible, but highly unlikely and not really a thing. Mainly because the reflected signal is too weak to rise above the noise or the return is filtered out due to the missile being too fast.

Exactly. Detection might be possible yet very difficult, even in perfect conditions. But interception with 100% accuracy from any range/angle is just downright ridiculous!

 

RN just do 2 ship of hornets, 10 amraams each, one guy shooter, the other guy.... Anti-missile defense. GG WP

[Harker]

Exactly. Detection might be possible yet very difficult, even in perfect conditions. But interception with 100% accuracy from any range/angle is just downright ridiculous!
 
RN just do 2 ship of hornets, 10 amraams each, one guy shooter, the other guy.... Anti-missile defense. GG WP

We're not even going to the missile firing stage. In most cases, the radar won't build a track for the pilot to see, due to the low S/N or the Doppler rejection. You might see a small missile as a very small and fleeting echo in a raw return, such as with the F-14's radar, but it probably wouldn't show up on a Hornet's B-scope.