A HUGE LEAP for EF2000！But consider UK version？

[bies]

Interesting info, thx, I didn't know about the frangible plate.

 

Gero said 20mm Vulcan he has in Phantom was lot better for A/A than 27mm Mauser in Eurofighter. I guess pure rate of fire and some spread are the most important factors.

Edited July 24, 2021 by bies

[G.J.S]

1 hour ago, bies said:

Interesting info, thx, I didn't know about the frangible plate.

 

Gero said 20mm Vulcan he has in Phantom was lot better for A/A than 27mm Mauser in Eurofighter. I guess pure rate of fire and some spread are the most important factors.

 

Probably. My experience with the Mauser was in A2G roles (Tornado), pretty effective there.

Volume of fire with the Vulcan would register quite a few tags - something would have to hit something critical, but with the Mauser in an A2A employment, each hit (assuming on target) is going to be a hard one. Tin tack hammer versus sledge hammer sort of thing. Both will hurt, one will knock you down a bit quicker.

Edited July 24, 2021 by G.J.S

[Harry.R]

It was cheaper to have the real cannon fitted to the aircraft than to build and field a weighted space model/shape.

[bies]

2 hours ago, G.J.S said:

Probably. My experience with the Mauser was in A2G roles (Tornado), pretty effective there.

Volume of fire with the Vulcan would register quite a few tags - something would have to hit something critical, but with the Mauser in an A2A employment, each hit (assuming on target) is going to be a hard one. Tin tack hammer versus sledge hammer sort of thing. Both will hurt, one will knock you down a bit quicker.

 

 

Gero said something similar that 27mm Mauser was probably better suited for A/G strafing.

 

Do you know if Eurofighter's gun is tilted upward like in F-14 for A/A or downward like in JF-17 for A/G? This would reveal it's designed purpose.

EF was overall mostly a fighter, only later receiving A/G capabilities. Especially in Germany.

Edited July 24, 2021 by bies

[G.J.S]

1 hour ago, bies said:

 

Gero said something similar that 27mm Mauser was probably better suited for A/G strafing.

 

Do you know if Eurofighter's gun is tilted upward like in F-14 for A/A or downward like in JF-17 for A/G? This would reveal it's designed purpose.

EF was overall mostly a fighter, only later receiving A/G capabilities. Especially in Germany.

 

Im afraid that’s something I don’t know chap.

 

The JF gun is angled downward? You sure?

[bies]

I've heard this information from a few guys and seen in some guide video so i believe it is angled downward a bit for strafing like typical A/G aircraft.

 

But i can't really be sure because with Jeff - for the first time in DCS - they did something, it works, it flies, but absolutely nobody can verify it realistic or not. I can't find any real life detailed documentation about JF-17.

[G.J.S]

3 hours ago, bies said:

I've heard this information from a few guys and seen in some guide video so i believe it is angled downward a bit for strafing like typical A/G aircraft.

 

Cant speak for the JF, but the platforms I've seen - and used -the cannon install when built in is never angled downward, that would make it practically useless should the pilot need to spray an aircraft in the air!. Podded cannons are a different matter.

You rely on the parabolic trajectory of the rounds to strike ground typically below the bore-line, similar in effect to low angle bombing, you are just launching the projectiles forward instead of just dropping iron.

[Kev2go]

yea id hope to have the Uk variant just so we can get some form of A/G capability

 

TGP, general purpose bombs, and laser guided bombs

[QuiGon]

On 7/27/2021 at 2:51 AM, Kev2go said:

yea id hope to have the Uk variant just so we can get some form of A/G capability

 

TGP, general purpose bombs, and laser guided bombs

 

German Eurofighters have TGP and LGB capability too. I don't think any Eurofigther has GPBs.

Edited July 28, 2021 by QuiGon

[TLTeo]

6 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

German Eurofighters have TGP and LGB capability too. I don't think any Eurofigther has GPBs.

 

Italian ones too (and JDAMs too I think?). As far as I know (it was somewhere on Spectre11's post) only Kuwaiti Typhoons carry GPBs.

[Southernbear]

Gero has stated before they they plan to do a German Typhoon with PIRATE, IRIS-T, Meteor and eventually some A2G and then after this they will think about adding weapons such as the AIM-132 and RAF skins to the existing typhoon....it won't be 100% but it should be close enough (he says) that people can still enjoy the idea of a UK EF2000 to some level of fun and accuracy. 

[Kev2go]

On 7/28/2021 at 3:02 AM, QuiGon said:

 

German Eurofighters have TGP and LGB capability too. I don't think any Eurofigther has GPBs.

 

 

but which tranche?

 

I thought German Tranche 1's didnt have those, that it was the RAF that had implemented air to surface first in like 2008 on tranche 1 block 5's whereas at the time Luftwaffe did not?  Or  are we getting a  later versions? Or could did the Luftwaffe Tranche 1's get A/G but simply at a later date?

 

Or is it simply that the UK added larger variety of A/G munitions for later models compared to the Luftwaffe?

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Kev2go

[QuiGon]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:23 AM, Southernbear said:

Gero has stated before they they plan to do a German Typhoon with PIRATE, IRIS-T, Meteor and eventually some A2G and then after this they will think about adding weapons such as the AIM-132 and RAF skins to the existing typhoon....it won't be 100% but it should be close enough (he says) that people can still enjoy the idea of a UK EF2000 to some level of fun and accuracy. 

 

A German Eurofighter with PIRATE? I have not seen such a statement

Only thing I have seen is them saying, that they want to add other nations variants after the German, which then get PIRATE.

 

 

4 hours ago, Kev2go said:

I thought German Tranche 1's didnt have those, that it was the RAF that had implemented air to surface first in like 2008 on tranche 1 block 5's whereas at the time Luftwaffe did not?

 

Yes, Luftwaffe Eurofighters recieved the A/G capability later after Tranche 1. That doesn't matter though, as our DCS Eurofighter won't be Tranche 1:

  

On 8/3/2021 at 11:43 AM, IronMike said:

 Q: What version of the Eurofighter will you focus on?

A: We will focus on a German version of the Eurofighter that may draw from several different Eurofighter versions. For one TrueGrit has its roots in the German fighter community; for the other an amalgamation of different versions lends itself most to what can be achieved and would be allowed to be depicted from the Eurofighter in DCS. As such, and as in real life, the DCS : Eurofighter will be released in steps. The initial release will orientate itself around a Luftwaffe version with air to air capability only.

There are different ways of wording what we're executing, but a specific one would be to say that it's an amalgamation. Service Eurofighters are frequently, rather chaotic, partial upgrades and evolutions, and we are leaning on this fact in order to strike a balance between three important pillars of a DCS aircraft: content (how much do you get for your money?), usability (how relevant and fun to use is this in a simulator/DCS World?) and feasibility (can we do this and make sure it's realistic with the data available?). 

Viewed through this lens, we're not shy to note that our Eurofighter is unlikely to match any real example you could point to, specifically. That isn't by itself unrealistic - again referencing how haphazard the real fleet can be - but we do feel that it is the right balance between the important pillars listed above. It's important to stress the fact that everything we do create and implement will be as realistic as we can possibly make it. This drives the final feature set, more than any specific tranche or serial. There will be no egregiously unrealistic or fantasy Eurofighter- but there will be liberties taken with ensuring that we can do what is possible, and ensure the most rich feature set in such a modern high fidelity module.

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by QuiGon

[Kev2go]

On 8/4/2021 at 8:21 AM, QuiGon said:

 

A German Eurofighter with PIRATE? I have not seen such a statement

Only thing I have seen is them saying, that they want to add other nations variants after the German, which then get PIRATE.

 

 

 

Yes, Luftwaffe Eurofighters recieved the A/G capability later after Tranche 1. That doesn't matter though, as our DCS Eurofighter won't be Tranche 1:

  

 

 

 

 

So in other words they are going to likely do something of a franken tranche with mix mash of features? rather than doing an earlier  time specific version, because they want to squeeze in as much features as possible from newer models, but dont have enough information to properly model a newer tranche specific aircraft?

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[TLTeo]

No, in other words the entirety of the Typhoon fleet is a constant frankenjet so (beyond whether it's a German jet with PIRATE or a non German one without it) worrying about a specific serial number's capabilities on a specific day makes no sense.

[Kev2go]

4 hours ago, TLTeo said:

No, in other words the entirety of the Typhoon fleet is a constant frankenjet so (beyond whether it's a German jet with PIRATE or a non German one without it) worrying about a specific serial number's capabilities on a specific day makes no sense.

 

Im not worried by exact aircraft serial number.

 

Ie if we have a F16C block 50 viper within a certain time frame then we have good  idea of what features were standard. It not expected to be exact representation of 1  serial number specific aircraft.

 

Would this not be  more or less the same For Eurofighter tranches? Or are they really that franken that where capabilities of Tranch 1 and Tranche 2 series blocks etc have become so overlapped over time IRL it doesn't matter? 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[TLTeo]

17 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

Ie if we have a F16C block 50 viper within a certain time frame then we have good  idea of what features were standard

Eeeeh except if you dig sufficiently around the forums you'll find that even that nice clear cut distinction doesn't really hold (e.g. the 4 Harm/6 Mav drama, Sniper being on and off the feature list, the SDB being extremely borderline, to name a few).

 

17 minutes ago, Kev2go said:

Would this not be  more or less the same For Eurofighter tranches? Or are they really that franken that where capabilities of Tranch 1 and Tranche 2 series blocks etc have become so overlapped over time IRL it doesn't matter? 

There's enough info in the FAQs out there from both Ironmike and Spectre11 - don't expect an exact year/tranche/software version/block/batch/insert generic term that people think means specific version even though it doesn't, and that's fine because it's representative of how that fleet (or pretty much any fleet - Klarsnow, a Mudhen WSO, said exactly the same thing about that jet) works IRL.

 

As long as we don't get blatantly inconsistent things like Brimstone on a Typhoon without PIRATE, it will be fine tbh.

Edited August 6, 2021 by TLTeo

[Etirion]

The typhoon largely depends on software, very similar to dcs in the sense that updates come in to add new stuff, although its not as simple as just hooking up an ethernet cable and hitting "update" obviously . Its not like Blocks or Lots for the F16 and F18.

 

[Kev2go]

15 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Eeeeh except if you dig sufficiently around the forums you'll find that even that nice clear cut distinction doesn't really hold (e.g. the 4 Harm/6 Mav drama, Sniper being on and off the feature list, the SDB being extremely borderline, to name a few).

 

thanks to a vocal minority muddying the waters and the developers ultimately submitting to demands  like with 4 harms/ 6 mav thing even though it has been determined to not be a thing IRL from those who work on the things.

 

15 hours ago, TLTeo said:

 

There's enough info in the FAQs out there from both Ironmike and Spectre11 - don't expect an exact year/tranche/software version/block/batch/insert generic term that people think means specific version even though it doesn't, and that's fine because it's representative of how that fleet (or pretty much any fleet - Klarsnow, a Mudhen WSO, said exactly the same thing about that jet) works IRL.

 

Just means not every aircraft is up to same standard, that you have a mixed fleet of various software suites  or fleet with older models of aircraft doesn't mean those features don't exist at that particular time, or they all dont get supplied with the same weapons. Again this a different matter.

 

that would be like not supplying ATFLIR's to a circa 2005ish hornet just because they were not issued in large enough quantities at that particular timeframe due to slow production rollouts and prioritized for SH fleets instead.

 

Bu thats an issue of supply not of the capability not being integrated or present.

 

15 hours ago, TLTeo said:

 

As long as we don't get blatantly inconsistent things like Brimstone on a Typhoon without PIRATE, it will be fine tbh.

 

 

yup this is what im talking about

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

1 hour ago, Etirion said:

The typhoon largely depends on software, very similar to dcs in the sense that updates come in to add new stuff, although its not as simple as just hooking up an ethernet cable and hitting "update" obviously . Its not like Blocks or Lots for the F16 and F18.

 

 

 i mean to a certain extent this can true in American aircraft. not just software but certain avionics capabilties that require hardware or equipment replacement, which are not block specific.

 

 

For example A  block 2 series super Hornet Lot 26-27 early in thier service life would still have APG73 radar, but down the line were retrofitted with APG79 AESA radar versus later batches that came out of the factory with them. There would probably be some other features that might make it on but i can't recall would have to look at T.O to see what was retrofitted to  older models versus which newer production models. 

 

or for example A block 1 Lot 25  Super Hornet would lack APG79 AESA radar even into present day  and some other avionics, but otherwise still have more modern software update for sake of commonality minus some additional avionics or hardware changes, depending on the timeframe relative to block 2's.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[kseremak]

13 hours ago, Kev2go said:

thanks to a vocal minority muddying the waters and the developers ultimately submitting to demands  like with 4 harms/ 6 mav thing even though it has been determined to not be a thing IRL from those who work on the things.

 

Yes, I'm afraid something like this might lower the whole DCS standard. On the other hand both ED and Heatblur are passionate i doubt they would find any satisfaction beyound some short term revenues in making something completely unrealistic.

 

But knowing the very first German Eurofighter receives Meteor missile capability summer this year (2021) with P2Eb software needed to use them and HB want to make a Meteor. Does it mean we are going to have 2021 standard Eurofighter with P2Eb software? Well. Due to HB involved and real life pilot in TG i can believe they could make fairly realistic around 2004-2006 early German pure A/A Eurofighter.

But I'm at least sceptic when it comes to possibility to model 2021 totally classified today's guardian of European sky and Meteor missile in a way it would resemble the real capabilities at all.

 

I propose 2 versions, by making a checkpoint during the developement.

At some point stop adding features having highly realistic A/A German Eurofighter around 2006 standard with AMRAAM and IRIS-T.  This is our F-16 and F-18 timeline.

Then develop further second far more classified 2021 Meteor capable P2Eb standard or something and adding different murky stuff, at the same time not including other real life systems we are not allowed to know they even exist (and i bet there is plenty of them in 2021 Eurofighter).   Still leaving classic 2006 standard to choose like F-14A and B.

Edited August 7, 2021 by kseremak

[Kev2go]

19 minutes ago, kseremak said:

 

I'm afraid something like this might lower the whole DCS standard. On the other hand both ED and Heatblur are passionate i doubt they would find any satisfaction beyound some short term revenues in making something completely unrealistic.

 

But knowing the very first German Eurofighter receives Meteor missile capability summer this year (2021) with P2Eb software needed to use them and HB want to make a Meteor. Does it mean we are going to have 2021 standard Eurofighter with P2Eb software? Well. Due to HB involved and real life pilot in TG i can believe they could make fairly realistic around 2004-2006 early German pure A/A Eurofighter.

But I'm at least sceptic when it comes to possibility to model 2021 totally classified today's guardian of European sky and Meteor missile in a way it would resemble the real capabilities at all.

 

I propose 2 versions, by making a checkpoint during the developement.

At some point stop adding features having highly realistic A/A German Eurofighter around 2006 standard with AMRAAM and IRIS-T.  This is our F-16 and F-18 timeline.

Then develop further second far more classified 2021 Meteor capable P2Eb standard or something and adding different murky stuff, at the same time not including other real life systems we are not allowed to know they even exist (and i bet there is plenty of them in 2021 Eurofighter).   Still leaving classic 2006 standard to choose like F-14A and B.

 

 

 

i personally have a checklist to have a multirole fighter and not a pure A2A only fighter. Should that be a problem? considering the UK got that capability in 2008, and then it being available to other nations via SRP 4.3 in 2010? Whereas it until all the way until 2017 for the Luftwaffe to have same capability of a TGP and laser guided bombs with newer P1E series software suites in tranche 2 fighters?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[QuiGon]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:37 AM, Kev2go said:

i personally have a checklist to have a multirole fighter and not a pure A2A only fighter. Should that be a problem? considering the UK got that capability in 2008, and then it being available to other nations via SRP 4.3 in 2010? Whereas it until all the way until 2017 for the Luftwaffe to have same capability of a TGP and laser guided bombs with newer P1E series software suites in tranche 2 fighters?

 

I would just wait untill HB has a clearer picture of what they will be able to do. Untill then all this is just wild guessing that leads to nowhere.