Need some advice on BFM in the Mustang!

[moggel]

I'm currently playing through the Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney campaign and I have no problem with any type of flying, landing, or bombing but whenever I get into a turn fight, especially with 109s, I keep tipping over and the Mustang tries to go into a spin. Might be I'm not gentle enough on the stick but I feel I have zero chance to stay in turns with anything. This happens at most altitudes.

Some advice would be appreciated!

[grafspee]

You are pulling too hard, watch your speed try keep speed above 200MPH, it take some time to get in to firing position so no rush

Oh there is small bug around ram air, it is good to assign cold air to axis because in cockpit mouse don't affect despite lever moved forward. This could be reason why your P-51 lack power at high alt.

Watch speed and slip indicator very important for sharp turns.

Edited September 17, 2021 by grafspee

[Chipwich]

Keep your speed up.  Be very aware of your pitch attitude in turns.  If you get sloppy and pull your nose above the horizon, you will bleed speed pretty quickly and the controls will get mushy. This is easy to do at altitude because your normal visual queues are different. You must be more reliant on your attitude indicator to monitor pitch. A little trick that you can use is when in a turning fight, is keep your pitch attitude slightly below the horizon. If the bandit is not using the vertical and just trying to turn with you, being slightly nose low will allow you to gain some airspeed for a small loss in altitude. Once you gain an advantage in the turn, be mindful of your altitude with regards to the bandit. Your goal should always be to keep him in front of your 3-9 nine and remain above him.   It’s a subtle differences in energy management, but WW2 aircraft performance are close enough that the little things are important. 
 

It’s easy to want to pull harder once you get the bandit out in front to get your guns in him, but you’ll usually get a better shot if you are patient and stay in lag pursuit as long as possible.  Google lag and lead pursuit for diagrams and explanations.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Chipwich

[zmz125000]

Decrease pitch axi Y saturation

[Silent Film]

Be gentle on the stick, move it just a bit, and then stay still in that position, Mustang will start turning slowly, but then it will accelerate the turn.

[moggel]

Thanks for the advice! I made some very basic training missions and took the 'stang up just to practice and see how she reacts at different altitudes while pulling different amounts of G. Seems I can sustain 2-2.5 Gs most of the time. More than that I need to dive and +4Gs can only be sustained a short while. An hour of practice wasgreat to train muscle memory and learn how to recognize when speed was starting to drop dangerously low.

 

Now I can do turn fights and hold my own but it seems the AI wingmen will only engage for a few minutes, making the campaign missions very difficult. They usually end with me having to turn fight multiple bandits while the rest of my group just fly formation, mainly. Tried ordering them to engage or "cover me" but the bandits can basically B'n'Z me all they want, without any reaction from my AI wingmen. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by moggel

[S. Low]

It will out-rate an A.I. 109 every single time. Get into a flat turn, don't pull hard but just hard enough, keep the speed 250-300, and you'll zoom around the circle and end up on the 109's 6. 

[StankFaust]

the p51 enters an accelerated stall at a lot of speeds.  This is where one wing stalls and the plane tries to flip over.  Everyone telling you that you're pulling too hard is correct, but the p51 is orders of magnitude more sensitive to elevator input than the other warbirds ive flown.

 

To help, I took my pitch x axis down to 45% and gave it a 15% curve.

This will also keep your wing from falling off at high speed and you pull too hard on the stick stalling a wing (usually the left) and snapping it off.

[M1Combat]

Also...

Switch fuel tanks every few minutes to keep the aircraft more balanced.

[_Hoss]

Every time you change RPM, you change your yaw torque, keep the TBI ball centered in level flight, when you make your turns steal a glance if the ball is left of center give it left rudder and keep it centered, and vice versa. Remembering as you change RPM it's going to change all on it's own.  Keep the throttle steady, keep the speed up, watch the ball and you should have far fewer problems.

Cheers

Hoss

[Doughguy]

speaking of speeds n rudders. a mate of mine that is an avid aces high and 109 flyer said to set full throttle during combat constantly and do "breaks" or slowdowns respectively by manouvers eg barralrolls with applied rudder or deployed flaps.

not really sure if thats the "correct" way but i certainly am overshooting alot when i flying full power all the time.

 

[Bossco82]

I appreciate the content of this thread a lot. My December goal is to get better at the prop planes. I'm useless at the moment. Dropping the wing and stalling in the vertical regularly. 

Even though I can handle the Tomcat and do consistent carrier landing. These warbirds show up how heavy handed you can be with the stick!

[Doughguy]

they are different beasts. they werent as powerful as jets hence they stall quicker. be gentle with the stick.

the 51 can do tight turns but dont yank the stick. gradually pull tighter. youll get shaking as a response if you pull too much. 

its not the best climber. if you have enough speed itll skyrocket if not youll fry the engine. dont go below 200 mph during combat and if in the vertical abort the climb and throttle back if youre going below that speed cause at about 100mph the engine will cook itself.

otherwise the mustang is rather easy to fly.

it performes best incl turns at high speeds.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Doughguy

[Bossco82]

Yeah I had a few goes this afternoon, tuning the axis on the X56 stick helped a lot. I got a lot of my WW2 kicks out of "Sturmovik", sorry "Ed" if your looking. However it is simply running like a dog on my AMD system at the moment. DCS is running like a dream, even better now the Radeon drivers are maturing a bit.

Trying the WW2 birds on DCS its obvious you need a lot more thought going into how you handle the flight model. If I am honest I didn't like this at first at all. I missed my "get in it chick the stick around and shoot stuff down" experience. On the other hand, I actually got a 109 properly today and it was a much more rewarding experience.

The Mossie and the Channel map are looking very tempting, just have to get the hang of this first.

[M1Combat]

The Mustang is good enough...  Just be disciplined.  Stay fast.  Stay above 16500' unless you're sure you can make the kill (and if you don't do NOT turn for another try get the eff back above 16.5K').

It's not the best "turn fighter" but...  it doesn't need to be.  It a very good boom and zoom fighter.

[Doughguy]

boom and zoom aswell as turnfighting is relative in most fighters.

with the mustang its the height and speed that dictates how to fight.

up high the stang can outrun and out manouver all axis fighters down low not so much.

it can turn well. at high speeds itll outmanouver the k4 but it has problems at low speeds. thats what ive observed at least.

the pony is more stable in high speed flight. in low speeds its rather prone to tumbling and weasling around. so gotta apply flaps a bit. but that drains your energy.

flying high and fast is rather a cake walk. imagine flying the stang as driving a big fat cadilac. you dont throw yourself into turns but rather go smooth left and right shallow yoyo and then run over the granny that happens to cross your path. similar is my tactic against ai up high.

loiter around and turn into a fighter in a shallow dive. if he turns hard disengage and climb to your original height and observe.  if hes doing a flat turn or opportunity is good in general descend on him. ai often starts to spiral downward as a defensive manouver and then climb back to stall you out. watch your height. stay in lagg pursuit above him. if you get too low pull up gain speed and the descend again if possible. imagine the ai doing steep yoyos whilest youre doing very flat ones to stay on height. often the ai just continues its yoyo manouver and turns up on your 12 o clock  on its stall point or you have a little bit of climbing to do but not so much that youd stall out.

ive not really managed to figure out good defensive manouvers on the deck. up high is rather easy as the axis fighters can be shaken of by either some simple turning and extending fast or some high speed g turns turning into them.

but down on the deck... different story.

you cant out run the d9 and k4. and all 3 axis fighters climb and turn as hell below 7k ft.

so either you get shot up in a turn or whilest running away.

and if its a 1on1 situation youre toast in most cases. especially when flying against more skilled ai.

the stall/hammerhead manouver is kinda risky. engine is cooked way too fast in the stang. sort of last resort but if it fails... well... youre as good as dead.

ive managed to survive a few turns agains a k4 on the deck but if hes close and you rarely managed to turn into him and extend quickly and climb..... the mustang isnt the best climber and if youre at 1k ft and your playground is above 18k..... thats a lot manouvering to do...

so yeah id be most interested in defensive manouvers in the stang. you cant stay up high all the time and inevetabely you have to descend at a point.

mustang pilots also strafed airfields during ww2. and they certainly didnt snipe 109s from 20k ft.

granted you have your wingmen and that helps alot. if they are around.... so saying "dont be in the defensive in the first place" doesnt cut it for me.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Doughguy