QUick Action - Cold and Dark Versus Takeoff.

[InitiatedAunt74]

I am experiencing weird behaviours with DCS A10C module.  A normal place to learn to start and then take off would be the Cold and Dark option.

While all controls seem mapped and work fine, when the DCS flight is started at the takeoff ready aircraft mode, when I use the cold and dark mode, things are really weird.. My hotas X axis does nothing and the Y axis is drifting on its own, continuously forward or back, as seen by the on-screen stick NOT moving at all left or right when I move the logitech stick left or right, and the up and down (Y) axis movements seem to be semi working, except that there's some kind of odd automated movement happening on the stick.   

 

And yet, all these issues do not occur when I use the takeoff mode.

The Logitech control profiles appear identical, both places, especially the all important Axis category.  It doesn't make sense that each profile would have its own glitches.

 

Even the cursor keys behave differently in cold and dark. Cursor up/down/left right do NOT move the stick, in Cold and Dark mode.  Maybe this is because a cold and dark aircraft's hydraulics are down?

Edited October 19, 2021 by InitiatedAunt74

[biotech]

Try to start at least one engine. You need hydraulics to move the stick.

[MAXsenna]

Damn, everybody should have FFB. I completely missed the obvious of OP's question!

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[InitiatedAunt74]

So what I would have expected DCS to do, when hydraulics are down:

1. Stick movement on a real joystick -> should MOVE the stick in the cockpit as it is being moved in real life.

2.  When hydraulics are down, either make the stick not move, or else make it move.  But what I would not expect is for one axis to NOT move at all (X) and one axis to be moving continuously up and down even when no control inputs are made.

3. Depending on how the real aircraft behaves, a hydraulics failure, or hydraulics down, my hand moving my stick side to side should move the stick in the cockpit side to side, but that movement might not correspond to any movement in the ailerons.

Are my expectations divergent from how DCS works?  Is DCS modelling something correctly here?  Since aircraft can take damage in DCS,  hydraulic damage,  loss of hydraulic system, should be modelled, right?  And so I would expect my mapped joystick to control my cockpit visible stick position, and NOT have the stick moving on its own, especially when the aircraft is cold and dark. What could be nudging/moving/pushing the stick up and down in a cold dark A10C?  Hydraulics are down.  APU is down.    Engines are off. There are no lights and no gauges.  But the stick moves up and down like a ghost is pushing it up and down, but does not move side to side.

Edited October 20, 2021 by InitiatedAunt74

[MAXsenna]

It's a good question, I have no clue.
In the Hind/Hip they won't move until hydraulics are established.
As for the A-10s, if you look at the controls indicator, center is way forward, and I sort of assume that when hydraulics pressure is high enough, the stick moves to center. Which it does with a force feedback stick.

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[biotech]

9 часов назад, InitiatedAunt74 сказал:

There are no lights and no gauges.  But the stick moves up and down like a ghost is pushing it up and down, but does not move side to side.

Perhaps such behavior can be explained by aircraft control system construction and specificity. Maybe real A-10C pilot or ED know something about

[jaylw314]

11 hours ago, InitiatedAunt74 said:

So what I would have expected DCS to do, when hydraulics are down:

1. Stick movement on a real joystick -> should MOVE the stick in the cockpit as it is being moved in real life.

2.  When hydraulics are down, either make the stick not move, or else make it move.  But what I would not expect is for one axis to NOT move at all (X) and one axis to be moving continuously up and down even when no control inputs are made.

AFAIK:

When both hydraulic systems are out, the pitch control automatically bypasses hydraulics and goes to mechanical only, so you should be able to move the stick forwards and backwards without them running.  I don't know about the spontaneous movements, though.

The roll controls do NOT have an automatic drop on loss of hydraulics to mechanical only, and the only way to free them up is manually turning on manual reversion, which instead connects the roll control to the aileron tabs.

[icemaker]

the movements you see are induced by wind.
No wind (the ailerons weight make them go down then you stick goes back).
Wind (the ailerons goes up depending on wind speed then your stick goes forward).

Just physics.

Edited October 21, 2021 by icemaker

[InitiatedAunt74]

So when the hydraulics are out, it's implicitly in mainual reversion (mechanical), and so really the wind is moving the trim tabs and that's moving the stick?

[icemaker]

yes

[jaylw314]

On 10/21/2021 at 4:45 PM, InitiatedAunt74 said:

So when the hydraulics are out, it's implicitly in mainual reversion (mechanical), and so really the wind is moving the trim tabs and that's moving the stick?

I assume @icemaker meant to say "elevator" instead of aileron.  the elevators automatically drop to manual reversion, which I think means bypassing the hydraulics since it is always mechanically connected.  Since the hydraulic actuator is bypassed and the elevators are still connected to the stick, I suppose it could flop around in the wind.

The ailerons are always mechanically connected through the hydraulic actuator and can't be bypassed, so the ailerons lock without hydraulic pressure.  As such, the stick would be locked in roll, and it would not flop around in the wind.  Manual reversion is not automatic, and when selected, the stick is disconnected from the aileron entirely and reconnected only to the aileron trim tabs (mechanically, I believe).

All this is interpretation and speculation on my part, not having seen the real thing and only going on some pretty poor quality illustrations.  There is someone claiming to be a former A-10 mechanic who's on the forums and might be able to clarify details, but I can't recall his name.

Edited October 23, 2021 by jaylw314