Jester doesn't call the ball

[Baz000]

In reality, based on anecdotal evidence of pilot/RIO interviews is that the pilot would tell the RIO he sees the ball and then the RIO would utilize the radio to make the ball call to paddles. Or vice versa CLARA.

The DCS behavior currently is the Tomcat pilot calls the ball or CLARA much the same way as the DCS Hornet. My suggestion would be that the pilot uses the ball keybind (we should get a keybind added for Clara too) to prompt Jester to call "200 Tomcat ball 4.0 or whatever" or "CLARA" after being prompted to by the human Tomcat pilot.

We don't need Tomcat pilot voice lines necessarily but it would be nice to have your pilot not be a complete mute maybe, even if it is just "Iceman" voice lines like when the human is RIO and the pilot is AI. If both had voice lines you could actually experience a little back and forth communications inside your cockpit, provided that it is appropriate and somewhat realistic.

[AG-51_Sabot]

Voice Attack command "Tomcat Ball"

[Airhunter]

You'd only call the ball during CQ, CASE III etc. During cyclic it should be ziplip.

[Baz000]

Right now in DCS you have to call the ball to paddles.

[Nealius]

14 hours ago, Airhunter said:

You'd only call the ball during CQ, CASE III etc. During cyclic it should be ziplip.

If we can get the DCS code to catch up with this. If you do zip-lip you'll get a cut pass in DCS.

[Baz000]

It still doesn't change the fact that the pilot IRL doesn't call paddles, but the RIO does.

Listen to any various F-14 pilot interviews, the RIO talks on the radio even at the boat.

[Jackjack171]

Cyclic ops are not always Zip-lip. I think I've only done it about 3 times. Did a lot of Hummer controlled approaches but not much Zip-lip. That goes along with an EMCOM situation most of the time. 
But I digress...back in the day (cold war) I understand that they did a lot of it. In my day (Not so far now) we did very little!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the RIO should be checking us into Marshall and all that, as well as the ball call!

Edited November 17, 2021 by Jackjack171

[Jayhawk1971]

As much as I would like to have a more interactive and "autonomous" Jester, I don't think it's in the cards in the foreseeable future. Sure, you could easily program Jester to automatically call the ball at 3/4, but what if the pilot does not see the ball? Or based on the weather conditions set in the mission editor, Jester automatically calls "Clara", but the player does see the ball anyway? And if the player has to tell Jester to call the ball, he could very well just cut out the middle man and do it directly. Impractical and convoluted. The whole point of the RIO doing all the comms is to reduce the pilot's workload, so he can concentrate on trapping on the boat. Having to micromanage Jester even more - especially in the groove - has the exact opposite effect.

Maybe once ED implements the overhauled ATC that they're supposedly working on.....  

I mean HB probably could create a "landing script" where the AI automatically makes the appropriate calls based on the player's location, speed, altitude, state and so on, triggered by a player command ("call inbound" or something). But for that to work you need players that can (and want to!) fly halfway precisely and know the proper procedures....so not noob friendly, or attractive to those who just want to get on board quickly.

However, mission designers could get around AI restrictions with heavy scripting. Reflected already has trigger-based comms implemented in Zone 5 and Fear the Bones (checklists, AAR banter, ATC and range controllers, for example). Very immersive, but not very flexible and I suppose a lot of work.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Jayhawk1971

[Baz000]

Maybe the player could indicate to Jester either "BALL" or "CLARA" in either given circumstance, just like the real F-14 pilot would talk to their RIO regarding the same using brevity. Right now it is mimicking the Hornet mostly. 

[Jackjack171]

Now you are speaking my language, friend!

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Baz000:

Maybe the player could indicate to Jester either "BALL" or "CLARA" in either given circumstance, just like the real F-14 pilot would talk to their RIO regarding the same using brevity. Right now it is mimicking the Hornet mostly. 

I suppose that should be possible with direct key bindings (and by extension, Voice Attack/Vaicom): button 1 = ball, button 2= clara. Another easy interim solution could be to  ask the voice actor playing Jester if he could record a couple of Tomcat ball calls and replace the the generic pilot voice with that? 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Jayhawk1971

[Baz000]

We already have a "call the ball" key bind I have been using that ever since the supercarrier and Hornet came out. Oddly enough I haven't noticed a "CLARA" key bind

[Jayhawk1971]

In Vaicom Pro there is a "Clara" voice command. Never had to use it, because I've never been in that situation.

Assuming that it works (might test later if I find the time), it must lead to some command, most likely Supercarrier module related.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Jayhawk1971

[Baz000]

Viacom Pro is not in the base DCS platform...

[Jayhawk1971]

If the command is not in the game, Voice Attack /Vaicom can not link to it (which is basically what the program does). But apparently not all commands that are available in DCS are accessible via in-game menus. 

From the Vaicom Pro manual:

Zitat

Note: More commands are available than for users who use menus. The correct flow must be followed to get adequate responses during the various CASE I/II/III stages. Issue commands in the correct order during approach, meeting stage parameters. Refer to ED’s DCS: Supercarrier guide for flow details.

Nevertheless, if it works in Vaicom, it has to be in DCS.

[lunaticfringe]

11 hours ago, Baz000 said:

Maybe the player could indicate to Jester either "BALL" or "CLARA" in either given circumstance, just like the real F-14 pilot would talk to their RIO regarding the same using brevity. Right now it is mimicking the Hornet mostly. 

It's mimicking the Hornet, because that's how ED's carrier ATC is built.  You'll note signals on the deck relative to the Tomcat setting up on the catapult are missing as well- again, because it's ED's show and not HB's.

The options mentioned that are included in Vaicom that don't show in the DCS comms menus/button options do exist in the comms menu logic (CLARA, and additionally things like wingman/flight pump, anchor, etc.), but for some reason aren't implemented currently by ED in the menus for all types, or at all, but still remain and function.  Why they're not accessible is up to that dev team.  

Until such time as ED has completed all of the ATC stuff and permits third parties access to situationally override, the only option is going to be akin to what was mentioned as Reflected has done. 

 

[JupiterJoe]

NOOB ALTERT:  If you're in EMCOM and 'zip-lipped', do you trap in total silence?  How does the boat know what trap weight to set on the arrester wires?

[Nealius]

IIRC zip-lip still has comms at 50nm check-in and perhaps the ball call as well.

Fuel planning also is to trap right at max trap weight, not under max trap weight, so that's standardized as well.

[The_Tau]

In ziplip you dont call ball, You call "see you at 10nm" with state update at marshall and then you switch to tower freq, which ideally should stay silent, but of course tower and plane can transmit in emergency, depending on EMCOM policy

[Nealius]

2 hours ago, The_Tau said:

In ziplip you dont call ball, You call "see you at 10nm" with state update at marshall and then you switch to tower freq, which ideally should stay silent, but of course tower and plane can transmit in emergency, depending on EMCOM policy

Who relays aircraft type and weight to the crew setting the arresting gear before a particular aircraft traps? My understanding is that the aircraft type and state at the ball call is specifically to set the arresting gear to match the aircraft coming in (IIRC it was discussed by Jell-O on his podcast).

Edited February 12 by Nealius

[The_Tau]

42 minutes ago, Nealius said:

Who relays aircraft type and weight to the crew setting the arresting gear before a particular aircraft traps? My understanding is that the aircraft type and state at the ball call is specifically to set the arresting gear to match the aircraft coming in (IIRC it was discussed by Jell-O on his podcast).

 

I dont belive that arresting gear crew would adjust anything when plane call the ball. They would have like 15s to do it. They are done adjusting way before. 

 

Recoveries are tracked even before aircraft launch. They have flight plan with number and type of aircraft, their tasking and when they are forming in the Marshall stack they land in particular order. Most often planes with lower endurance/fuel quantity will land first. So in our DCS world, with 2 official cv capable planes, Hornets will land first then tomcats. Remember that in RL, there are specific launch and recovery windows and its pilot's responsibility to fit to this timetable. 

 

Strongly recommend guide to CV landing procedures

 

Edited February 12 by The_Tau

[Nealius]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:04 AM, The_Tau said:

I dont belive that arresting gear crew would adjust anything when plane call the ball. They would have like 15s to do it. They are done adjusting way before. 

For verification. However according to accounts from former pilots and LSOs, the reason for aircraft type is to ensure the arresting gear is set, and 15 seconds is plenty of time for adjustment. What's missing from the guides is the context of the "old" days where there's a huge difference between an A-6, an F-14, and an F/A-18 coming in, to today where it's all Rhinos. Plus the newer Ford class carriers with arresting gear that doesn't even need to be set per aircraft type because of its design and advancement in technology. Pieterras guide is tailored mostly to present-day operations.

People often forget this context. 

Once we get the Naval Phantom, the A-7, and F-8 I'm sure we'll see people doing everything according to Pieterras' guide--when period footage and documentation shows no clearing turns and carrier breaks at 300kts--because they haven't considered context or multiple primary sources, instead putting all their faith in one unvetted personality. 

Edited February 14 by Nealius