“Eras”…

[rkk01]

OK, so always lots of aircraft and map module wish lists…

often with general reflection on the absence of coherent plane sets and complimentary ground and naval assets

Coming at this from a slightly different angle - what about a series of “eras” to focus on?

1942-1943:  seems like a much more interesting WW2 timeframe than 44-45.  Lots of very finely balanced engagements across the Channel, Med, North Africa, Eastern Front incl Caucuses and of course in the Pacific

1965-1972:  SE Asia of course, but also a series of Arab-Israeli conflicts as well. 

1980s:  Classic NATO v WARPAC standoff in Europe, N Atlantic /GIUK, Falklands, lots of opportunities for existing / proposed modules for the Iran / Iraq war, and of course the Cold War bogeyman of Hind v mujahideen in Afghanistan (plus PAF F-16s on border skirmishes)

Each of the above offer fascinating plane sets, territories and engagements and would give some focus around module selection and development

(which I’m sure is there anyway…!)

[upyr1]

17 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

OK, so always lots of aircraft and map module wish lists…

often with general reflection on the absence of coherent plane sets and complimentary ground and naval assets

Coming at this from a slightly different angle - what about a series of “eras” to focus on?

1942-1943:  seems like a much more interesting WW2 timeframe than 44-45.  Lots of very finely balanced engagements across the Channel, Med, North Africa, Eastern Front incl Caucuses and of course in the Pacific

My top maps for this time frame would be Stalingrad and Kursk. Asset wise we really need to bridge the gap between the I-16 and MiG-15. So I would also add 1950-1953

Korean War 

 

17 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

1965-1972:  SE Asia of course, but also a series of Arab-Israeli conflicts as well. 

1980s:  Classic NATO v WARPAC standoff in Europe, N Atlantic /GIUK, Falklands, lots of opportunities for existing / proposed modules for the Iran / Iraq war, and of course the Cold War bogeyman of Hind v mujahideen in Afghanistan (plus PAF F-16s on border skirmishes)

Each of the above offer fascinating plane sets, territories and engagements and would give some focus around module selection and development

(which I’m sure is there anyway…!)

I'd like to see NATO vs WarPac for 1946 - 1980 as well. 

[rkk01]

I toyed with the idea of including Korea as an era

[upyr1]

15 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

I toyed with the idea of including Korea as an era

We have the F-86, MiG-15, and F-51 so it should have been listed 

[rkk01]

6 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

We have the F-86, MiG-15, and F-51 so it should have been listed 

That’s kind of why I skipped… we’re missing the map and a few key aircraft - Panther, Sea Fury, B-29 amongst others, but so much focus has been around the planes we already have

[upyr1]

3 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

That’s kind of why I skipped… we’re missing the map and a few key aircraft - Panther, Sea Fury, B-29 amongst others, but so much focus has been around the planes we already have

We're missing a map and redfor assets as well as other blue planes which I want 

[Fangs Out]

If I could throw my hat into the ring, Id go for a 1975-79 era to focus on. Think about it, its the era of new but unproven models such as the F-15A and later in 78, the C model, F-14A , F-16A in 76, and A-10 in 73. But it also has older but still capable jets such as the F-5E-1, F-4E-53 ,F-4J , and for RedFor pilots, the MiG-21Bis (72), Mig-23M ,Mig-25PD, Su-24 (74), Su-17M3 , and the limited deployment of the Tu-22M. For Ground forces, you can expect better models of M60s in the AOS and RISE variants, the M-163A2 , the MIM-48A1 , and M151A1 Sheridan. Redfor gets early model T-72s, T-64As, BMP-1 , ZSU-23-4M , Osa AK, and any others I missed.

Finally, most of the major conflicts that defined legacies of aircraft happened during this era. The Yom-Kippur war, Ogden War, Iranian-border skirmish with the Soviets. End of the Vietnam war, the 79 war between the Khmer Rouge and Vietnam , etc and etc. 

 

Thats my two cents 

 

-FangsOut 

[Boosterdog]

Isn’t this just a map and module wish list by any other name? 

[upyr1]

3 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

Isn’t this just a map and module wish list by any other name? 

yes it looks that way.

[rkk01]

7 hours ago, Boosterdog said:

Isn’t this just a map and module wish list by any other name? 

Only if you want to be simplistic

 

[Northstar98]

I would love to see a coherent set, as that's one of the things DCS really lacks, and for me, one of its larger failings.

Right now, we have aircraft spanning some ~70 years but pick one decade in particular and you probably won't find anything coherent. The only era where this is less of an issue is WWII, where there's the largest number of peer modules, a dedicated asset pack and 2 dedicated maps.

I'll put my obligatory copypasta breakdown from this thread in the spoiler below:

Spoiler

• Early WWII has a single aircraft and absolutely nothing else (I-16)
• Late WWII is possibly the most flushed out era in DCS with:
  • A fairly equal number of peer-to-peer BLUFOR and REDFOR modules, done to a similar level of quality, with more on the way.
  • 2 dedicated maps, with a 3rd on the way (though hardly anything for that map as of yet).
  • A dedicated asset pack, with plenty of vehicles and air defences, of course there's stuff missing (especially ships, but also a few US air defences)
  • The era where numerous new technologies came to first:
    • VT AA shells.
    • AI improvements.
    • Completely overhaulled damage model.
    • Torpedoes (both aerial, surface and submerged launch, even if the latter 2 are somewhat broken).
    • Submerging submarines.
• Early Cold War (1946 - 1960):
  • For full-fidelity modules you've got the F-86F, MiG-15bis, MiG-19P and a G.91R on the way.
  • Only ground units are exclusively REDFOR, with 2 air defences units (AZP S-60 and the ZSU-57-2), 1 tank (PT-76B) and 1 APC (MT-LB). That's it, there's absolutely nothing else apart from what you can recycle from WWII.
  • No map.
  • No naval assets.
• Mid Cold War (1961 to 1975):
  • Only has 3 full-fidelity modules, 1 of them a trainer (F-5E-3, MiG-21bis and L-39C), though there is also the F-8J on the way.
  • Maybe a couple of AI aircraft (F-4E?).
  • Quite a few REDFOR air defences, with the S-75M/SA-2d, S-125M/SA-3b, the upcoming S-200V/SA-5b, the 9K33/SA-8a and the 9K31/SA-9a. There is also Rapier (though without Blindfire for the UK). We have a couple of REDFOR vehicles, though hardly any BLUFOR vehicles (can only think of the Land Rovers, maybe the Chieftain Mk.7/L and the Leopard 1A3), there are however a few REDFOR vehicles (T-55A, BMP-1, BMD-1, BTR-RD, BRDM-2).
  • No map.
• Late Cold War (1976 to 1989):
  • Only the Mirage 2000C as a full fidelity module (and only just, our 2000C is 1989 at the earliest), though there is an early F-14A (suitable for pre 1994 missions) in the works, as well as an A-6E (variant depending, TRAM and WCSI fit here) and an A-7E. There is also a 9-12 MiG-29 in a 'hope-to' state. Here is where we also have the C-101, L-39ZA and the Mi-8MTV-2 and (without 9M120), the Mi-24P too (though it has Lipa removed). Finally, there's the Christen Eagle 2 and Yak-52 (though both unarmed).
  • All of the FC3 aircraft apart from the F-15C, and if you exclude R-77, the 9-13S MiG-29S.
  • There's a few more AI aircraft (mostly REDFOR - Tu-22M3, MiG-23MLD, MiG-25, Su-17M4).
  • The majority of air defence systems: MIM-23B I-HAWK PIP Phase 1, Rapier FSA for the UK, Roland 2, Gepard, M163A2 (?) and MIM-72G for BLUFOR; for REDFOR we've got the 2K12M3/SA-6b, S-300PS/SA-10b, 9K35M3/SA-13, 9K37M1/SA-11, the 9K38/SA-18 (though uses the 9M342 missile of the 9K338/SA-24 from the mid 2000s) and the 9K330/SA-15a.
  • The majority of REDFOR ground vehicles, and a few BLUFOR ground vehicles.
  • 1 map (Caucasus) (?) - though is wholly unsuitable for BLUFOR vs REDFOR Cold War missions.
  • The majority of REDFOR naval assets.
• 90s:
  • Heatblur's current offerings: the AJS 37 and the current Tomcats (though with LANTIRN the Tomcats are late 90s/early 2000s), there's the J-11A too and there's also possibly the A-6E (depending on what variant HB does) as well as a few more AI aircraft (namely the Tu-160). Here's is also where the Ka-50, Gazelle and the WIP Bo-105PAH-1A1 fits.
  • There's a few more air defences present (MIM-104C Patriot PAC-2, 2K22M/SA-19).
  • Probably the majority of BLUFOR ground vehicles as well as a few more REDFOR.
  • We finally have a map (Caucasus) but it's only really suitable for the 1991-1992 South Ossetia War and the 1992-1993 War in Abkhazia.
  • The remaining REDFOR naval assets (excluding the CAP naval assets, and the Pr. 636 Improved Kilo). There's also (pedantically speaking) HB's Forrestal and the Type 148 Tiger-class [La Combatantte IIA], given that they're both late fits.
• 2000s:
  • For modules we have the most popular BLUFOR modules: A-10C, F-16CM and the F/A-18C (the F-14A/B reaches into here too). The F-15C fits here, and so does the 9-13S MiG-29S with the R-77, the AH-64D Block II and the MB.339A MLU will also fit here.
  • There's a couple more AI aircraft (namely the F-15E).
  • There are only 3 more air defence systems, that being NASAMS II, the HQ-7b Self-Propelled and the 9K338/SA-24.
  • The rest of the BLUFOR naval assets, as well as the CAP naval assets.
  • As for maps from a purely pedantic perspective, there aren't any that strictly fit here, though most payware terrains could be made to fit around here as well as the Marianas, even if they are generally newer (only one I'm unsure about is Syria).
• 2010s:
  • For modules we have the later A-10C, AV-8B N/A, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the JF-17. There's also the OH-58D and technically the Mi-24P but only due to the removal of Lipa, otherwise we would have a Mi-24P from the 90s (though only from 9M120 Ataka, without 9M120 we would have a mid 80s Mi-24P, just missing Lipa - this aircraft is rather unique in that it really hasn't changed much since it was produced, only thing I'm unsure about is engines).
  • We have maybe a couple more AI aircraft (namely the Su-34 and H-6J)
  • A few more ground vehicles (LPWS, ZTZ96B, ZBD-04A, T-72B3 and BTR-82A).
  • Here are where the SoH/PG, Syria and Marianas map strictly fit around, though this is arguably more pedantic.
• And finally onto the 2020s:
  • Only the Eurofighter Typhoon (seeing as it's a Luftwaffe Typhoon, but being heavily teased with the MBDA Meteor, which only entered Luftwaffe service in 2021) and absolutely nothing else.

Obviously succeeding decades/eras will carry-over plenty of assets and modules from previous decades/eras, but hopefully you can see the problem.

Right now, my focus would be on the late Cold War (which I'll define as fitting within 1976 to 1989) to the early 90s.

My ideal maps for that focus around Europe, Scandinavia and the North Atlantic:

• Germany: Fulda Gap/North German Plain (for me the latter yields more interest).
• GIUK Gap, including at least Iceland, the Faroes and the Shetland islands. Hopefully reaching into Scotland (at least as far as RAF Lossiemouth and Kinloss) and maybe Greenland. This map should be the most doable.
• Baltic (this one would be difficult because it would need to be massive to include all the major players).
• NATO northern flank (stretching at least from Bodø to Severomorsk)

Edited December 15, 2021 by Northstar98
added H-6J

[Boosterdog]

4 minutes ago, rkk01 said:

Only if you want to be simplistic

 

I do agree BTW - A focussed area and plane set would be great. JUst dont think its practical. When i found myself thinking about it i ended up with a HUGE map of northern Europe, 3 British aircraft, 2 French ones, 4 additional russian aircraft several F4s an F111 and a serious Naval contingent   - so at least 13 wishlist items in one without any maps in the middle east. 

I think issue with era specific stuff and DCS is timescales - left to its own devices the above is at least 10 years work for ED. If you co-opt 3rd parties it would be like herding cats given the differences in approach, other committments, staffing and ability. There would also be contractual arrangments to deliver within timescales I would guess given the  interdependency required that I doubt any would be foolish enough to enter into. Additionally DCS is like a supertanker. Takes ages to start, stop and change direction so its not as if you can simply put aside whats in the (long) pipeline and hope to survive on your reserves until the new stuff finally comes to fruition.  The impression I get is that its somewhat of a hand to mouth existence as it is and a wrong move could be the last. 

ED and DCS simply cant produce a map and 10 aircraft like another sim can every 3 years. What your left with then is a period of nothing to sell for say 2 years, then a map and a couple of aircraft (which will always be the wrong ones for at least half of the comminuty) for a year or two then a drip feed of airframes and perhaps one or two new maps for the remainder, most of which will be in various states of early access,  to a customer base who may not even be interesed in that Era (ever or any longer).

Obviously if the era were to be 74-79 all of the above is moot, it would be roaring success, everyone would love the devs and pay them on a monthly basis just for being devs with no expectation and everyone would be very rich.........honest.