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Reloading Doesn't Reload

Apocalypse31

By Apocalypse31
in Bugs and Problems

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Callsign112

Callsign112

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wychmaster said:

To what you said about the AP round should stay in the barrel if you switch ammo types to HE with E (or the other way around). As I said, this is already implemented in the autocannons (even though the ammo type selection works differently). Try the Bradley 😉

Well lets see, I would say we have provided some ideas. From a minimal version to a full version that gets as close as it can with the current CA mechanics. How much time and effort would be needed is something only ED can answer. If we can choose, than your suggestion is the way to go 🙂 

 

Okay, you were referring to a different vehicle. I was pointing out though for vehicles like the Abrams, the reload command has some inaccuracies. In all fairness, it does work correctly when you use it to change ammo types ("E" + "CTRL + R"), which I think is what it is meant for. You wouldn't normally use it by itself to reload the cannon with the same shell, but I thought it was interesting to note what/how the current mode actually does/works.

I think people, myself included, have been hitting the reload command thinking nothing is happening. You can kind of get a sense of this by reading the title of this thread. I now realize the reason I don't see anything happen is because unless I hit the "E" key first, all I am doing is reloading the same shell.

But the part about changing ammo types without hitting reload should really be looked at as an improvement. Because it should be up to the player if he/she wants to change ammo for the next shot, or the one they are about to take. The way it is modeled now, when you hit the "E" key, it automatically changes the current shell type without having to use the reload command.

And I think being able to replenish the ready rack/MG belt as requested in this thread would be a more accurate simulation with obvious benefits to game play. But NineLine seems to have gotten the main point regarding the need to have the command added.

We might have to wait for the excitement of the Apaches to die down a little (+/- 24 months) to hear more.

 

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Wychmaster

Wychmaster

Posted
Posted
vor 10 Stunden schrieb Callsign112:

Okay, you were referring to a different vehicle. I was pointing out though for vehicles like the Abrams, the reload command has some inaccuracies. In all fairness, it does work correctly when you use it to change ammo types ("E" + "CTRL + R"), which I think is what it is meant for. You wouldn't normally use it by itself to reload the cannon with the same shell, but I thought it was interesting to note what/how the current mode actually does/works.

I think people, myself included, have been hitting the reload command thinking nothing is happening. You can kind of get a sense of this by reading the title of this thread. I now realize the reason I don't see anything happen is because unless I hit the "E" key first, all I am doing is reloading the same shell.

But the part about changing ammo types without hitting reload should really be looked at as an improvement. Because it should be up to the player if he/she wants to change ammo for the next shot, or the one they are about to take. The way it is modeled now, when you hit the "E" key, it automatically changes the current shell type without having to use the reload command.

I somewhat got what you meant. If you have AP loaded, and switch to HE, the AP round should still be in the barrel and only hitting ctrl + R or firing the round in the barrel would put an HE round into the barrel, right? My point was just, that this is partially implemented for autocannons with the difference that you can't switch the shell that is already in the barrel, and it isn't as relevant for ACs as for a tanks main gun. However, I didn't realize, that ctrl + R actually triggers an action on main guns. Never tried it 🙂

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Callsign112:

We might have to wait for the excitement of the Apaches to die down a little (+/- 24 months) to hear more.

I am more opimistic. Look at the recent changelogs. They are working on CA. I think the Apache is a key factor here because it gets more players close to the ground and combined arms operations will get a lot more attention once people realize how much fun it is. The "problem" with airplanes (even the A-10) is that they are to detached from the action on the ground and the interactions between people driving tanks and players flying planes is very limited. Just an occasional: "Can you remove XY for me?". With the Apache we can now have ground units and aircrafts working together as a team, making it so much more interesting. Yes, it was already possible before using other Helos, but they either lacked virtual pilots or the capabilities to provide real good CAS.

 

Something else/offtopic:

Would you (and other people) be interested in a special Discord Server for Combined Arms related discussions? Maybe we can also organize some CA community missions there.

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Callsign112

Callsign112

Posted
Posted

I couldn't agree more, having a believable ground war element is extremely important in simulating the aviation element that goes along with it, especially when it concerns rotary winged aircraft. My comment was more to poke fun at the level of hysteria the Apache has generated. I mean nothing in DCS so far has made me shop for flight controls like the Apache has. I might actually have to buy a stick'n pedals. That thing looks absolutely amazing. I can't get over the level of detail ED has put into that module.  My hope is that they capitalize on the interest being generated and bring the much needed improvements to the ground war element in a timely manner.

But to the topic, yes it appears to me the reload command works with all weapons/guns, at least the ones I tried it with. But I think what was happening, at least in my case, is I wasn't seeing the expected outcome. I was expecting the ready rack to be reloaded when using the command in a MBT. But what actually happens is it is simply reloading the cannon. And the more I think of it, the more it makes sense.

The problem is all the little inconsistencies. I'm not even sure I would call these bugs. The issues look more to me like simply unfinished implementations of the model. Like most things in CA, they were modeled and left in a usable state waiting to be polished. What we have modeled now in terms of ammo handling is multiple ammo types, a command to select them, a command to reload them, and a command to replenish the entire ammo supply of the vehicle if you are near an ammo supply on the map. What we need to make the fight more real is a command to replenish the ready rack using the ammo supply you have on hand, along with fixes for the issues already pointed to.

I think having a CA channel on ED discord is an excellent idea. It would help a lot if CA would see more frequent updates/fixes, and I think your right, its turn may be arriving soon.

  • 2 weeks later...
Apocalypse31

Apocalypse31

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 4/5/2022 at 12:42 PM, NineLine said:

I have requested, initially for the ready rack to be reloaded at any point on the Abrams. So I will start there and see where we can go from there.

When will we see this?

 

Also - what other feedback do you need for other units?

TankSim Discord

  • 2 weeks later...
AEhere

AEhere

Posted
Posted

It seems to be a common issue across all ground units; for example the T-55 also has it's ready rack (or autoloader carousel) implemented, but hitting reload doesn't actually reload it. Same with the MG, it goes into reload but then leaves you with the same half-spent belt that was loaded before.

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Callsign112

Callsign112

Posted
Posted

And some of the vehicles will have things that are unique as well. Like the Bradely for example requires the loader to clip another belt in before the one being used runs dry. But if they can fix the global issues with using weapons it will be a big improvement.

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  • 3 months later...
Callsign112

Callsign112

Posted
Posted

+1, but I do appreciate all the updates CA has been seeing lately. Just since April:

  • Rotate turret not working in isometric view - fixed.
  • Stryker Family of Armored vehicles have had sights updated
  • M1A2 Abrams added 3x, 6x, 13x, 25x and 50x to FLIR sights.
  • Fixed. Issue with units moving uphill.
  • Fixed. MANPADS turn 180 degrees when taking control.
  • Added the ability to quickly regain track after losing the target track for SAM Osa (SA-8).
  • Added playable Chieftain Mk.3.
  • Fixed engine power for Leopard1 and M60-tank.
  • Fixed maximum speed for LUV Tigr.
  • Fixed being able to activate cruise control at zero speed.
  • Fixed an issue with the player's max speed being limited when dealing damage to enemy AI.
  • Adjusted damage to infantry and added chance of a critical hit on an infantryman.
  • Fixed firing of MLRS with S-8 rocket when assigning a target on the F10 map.
  • Added damage penalties for player controlled vehicles in Combined Arms.
  • Added combat state view Buk SR for ENC.
  • Added the ability to turn ON/OFF the vehicle engine (LCtrl + E). 
  • Added a checkbox for automatic start engine under Special Options for Combined Arms
  • Fixed: MG for Leopard 2A4 on isometric view.
  • Fixed: Flag animation for La Combattante 2.
  • Fixed: Client engine sound in multiplayer for ground units.
  • Fixed: ALERT on hit manpads.
  • Fixed: Camera shake after destroying player controlled CA.
  • Fixed: Player can drive units after a critical hit.
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  • 2 months later...
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  • 1 year later...
Hotel Tango

Hotel Tango

Posted
Posted

One simple alternative for tanks would be to either remove the penality in reload time (unrealistic, but it also shoudn't be 15+ seconds) or to remove the 2 racks entirely. So, instead of having 14/28 Sabot rounds, you would have 42.

The better option is to fix the feature as OP suggested, and give you the option to choose when to reload the ready ammo rack at any time.

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HRP | Derby
"Wardog, launch!"

  • 10 months later...
MarkMD

MarkMD

Posted
Posted

The weapons on the ground units have been poor for a long time.

Most AFV’s have a ready rack, unless it’s an auto loader. Having spent many a year teaching gunners how to load their tank, replenishment is a key fundamental part of the job.  We teach that loading from the secondary ammunition is only done during lulls in battle.  Your ready rack can be depleted quickly, so replenishment at the earliest time makes sense.  Granted, it takes time to replenish, but you can do this on an adhoc basis.  As soon as you have emptied rounds and charges from the ready racks, replenishment should be done immediately, the tank crew should be doing this automatically without the player interaction. 
One thing that is not taken into account is the crew experience, this would have a huge impact in the replenishment process. 
When reloading internally can be quick, a lot quicker than from a replenishment truck.

The external MG ammo should not take any time as it’s generally kept in its containers.  The COAX MG is replenished by unboxIng all ammo into a long bin. Depending upon tank type this can be over 3000 rounds.

when loading the main gun, this can take around 6 seconds to load, each loading then around 6 seconds from your ready round rack.  Loading from other parts of the tank is not recommended, and in my experience, never done.

The extended loading times in DCS is completely incorrect in my opinion and should be removed. Tank commanders are trained to pull out of contact to carry this out.  

If you can’t get the ammo to reload, or has extra long loading times, stop the loading process and then select the correct weapon system. Sometimes this happens and requires you to manually stop and restart it again. Make sure you select either APFSDS, HEAT OR HESH. 
 

I hope this makes some sense and if you need more info please ask.

Happy hunting,

Mike-Delta

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