Open Kneeboard for VR and 2d

[corbu1]

Am 20.3.2022 um 02:54 schrieb actually_fred:

> Maybe left and right kneeboard like in VRK

I want to do this, I'm mostly trying to figure out the user experience. I don't want twice as many button bindings, two graphics tablets, etc.

I'm thinking maybe something like the A-10C 1 'swap MFCDs' function - or just a 'copy current page to left knee'.

> use of an calculator

Not yet, but I did design it with this in mind. Right now I'm thinking A-10C LASTE wind calculator, and a coordinate converter. Is there other stuff you'd like? Would a basic arithmetic calculator be useful?

When I get to this, I'm likely to try making it so it's doable with HTML+Javascript, or lua instead; I'm not sure if that will be practical with the rendering pipeline (essentially we need to periodically copy a GPU texture between applications) - but it would be much better than needing anyone else that wants to make a new calculator to learn C++

I loved to see left and rightside support like VRK.In VR this is nice with the possibility to position on your virtuel legs….

a calculator would be nice to with some basic calculations and some conversation of algorithms like km/nm, Degree/ Fahrenheit for example.

 

[Buergels]

Am 20.3.2022 um 09:11 schrieb edmuss:

If you can implement Openxr support then that would excellent, I bought a cheap huion from eBay with the intention of setting up vrk and then the openxr mod happened

Will keep following and happy to help out with some testing if needed (G2 running openxr but can switch back to steamvr at any time).

+1

[Willdass]

8 hours ago, Buergels said:

+1

It works now, with the latest update

[edmuss]

@actually_fred  Is it possible to show the contents of a page within the VR kneepad as it is in the desktop app?

Similarly if the above is possible is there any way of selecting a page from the contents? So for example being able to traverse through the theatre pages without having to click 50 times.

[winghunter]

5 minutes ago, edmuss said:

@actually_fred  Is it possible to show the contents of a page within the VR kneepad as it is in the desktop app?

Similarly if the above is possible is there any way of selecting a page from the contents? So for example being able to traverse through the theatre pages without having to click 50 times.

I would love bookmarks the way the DCS kneebaord works - with the only difference that you can label the stickies and they are saved for the next session

[actually_fred]

5 hours ago, edmuss said:

Is it possible to show the contents of a page within the VR kneepad as it is in the desktop app?

I could add that option, however it would mean removing the headings and the button in the top left, and...

5 hours ago, edmuss said:

Similarly if the above is possible is there any way of selecting a page from the contents? So for example being able to traverse through the theatre pages without having to click 50 times.

If you have a graphics tablet, tap the button in the top left with a 'menu' icon, then tap the page you want. For mission/theater/folder-of-images it'll just give you a quick listing of pages, but for PDFs with table-of-contents data, it'll list that. If a PDF has hyperlinks, they'll work too

5 hours ago, edmuss said:

Is it possible to show the contents of a page within the VR kneepad as it is in the desktop app?

Or, if you're looking for the opposite, and want a non-VR 'preview' of the VR rendering, grab the 'remotecontrols' zip and use OpenKneeboard-Viewer.exe ; hit `s` to enable a streamer mode that makes it more suitable for OBS or similar.

[edmuss]

7 hours ago, actually_fred said:

If you have a graphics tablet, tap the button in the top left with a 'menu' icon, then tap the page you want. For mission/theater/folder-of-images it'll just give you a quick listing of pages, but for PDFs with table-of-contents data, it'll list that. If a PDF has hyperlinks, they'll work too

Is that in VR? I didn't spot a menu button but that doesn't mean I just didn't see it

Will have a play thanks.

[Brainfreeze]

10 hours ago, actually_fred said:

 

If you have a graphics tablet, tap the button in the top left with a 'menu' icon, then tap the page you want. For mission/theater/folder-of-images it'll just give you a quick listing of pages, but for PDFs with table-of-contents data, it'll list that. If a PDF has hyperlinks, they'll work too

Hi Fred, sorry but I am using DCS with OpenXR and in VR I do not have any menu icon at the top left.  The only way I have to switch from one tab to the other is to bind the command to something (keyboard/joystick etc).  Am I suppose to have one? 

[Lt_Jaeger]

If you got a table of content in a PDF or added a folder with a bunch of pics you get in the top left corner that button thingy. If these pre-requisites are not given, you can only navigate via buttons on the hotas or tablet. 

[Brainfreeze]

2 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

If you got a table of content in a PDF or added a folder with a bunch of pics you get in the top left corner that button thingy. If these pre-requisites are not given, you can only navigate via buttons on the hotas or tablet. 

Ok got it.  Yes if I add a PDF with more than 1 page as a new tab I get a menu icon.  But there is no menu to go from one tab to the next.

 

Another thing I noticed is that the kneeboard position is never the same when I get into my aircraft from one DCS session to the next.  Same aircraft, same measures in openKneeboard settings/VR but different position in the cockpit.   Weird.

[Lt_Jaeger]

Yeah, the latter I did not figure out myself. You might join the discord, the developer is very active over there and sometimes even react on the spot with bug fixes.

 

 

 

Edit: Discord Link : https://discord.gg/QQhzk782EV

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Lt_Jaeger

[edmuss]

21 hours ago, actually_fred said:

If you have a graphics tablet, tap the button in the top left with a 'menu' icon, then tap the page you want. For mission/theater/folder-of-images it'll just give you a quick listing of pages, but for PDFs with table-of-contents data, it'll list that. If a PDF has hyperlinks, they'll work too

Found the menu button, I never even saw it before!
Works perfectly thanks

Edited May 2, 2022 by edmuss

[Gianky]

Hey guys!

Has anyone tried this app with a One by Wacom tablet?

https://www.wacom.com/en-en/products/one-by-wacom

Edited May 7, 2022 by Gianky

[Brainfreeze]

18 minutes ago, Gianky said:

Hey guys!

Has anyone tried this app with a One by Wacom tablet?

https://www.wacom.com/en-en/products/one-by-wacom

 

yep.  got a one.  it works fine

[Lt_Jaeger]

Switched recently from huion to wacom intuos, works fine, just a little to few buttons for the current concept of interaction with Openkneeboard. 

[Gianky]

Got it, thank you guys!

I'll try it ASAP.

[Gianky]

On 5/7/2022 at 3:35 PM, Brainfreeze said:

yep.  got a one.  it works fine

Hey Brainfreeze, I'm getting a bit deeper into Open Kneeboard workings, the One doesn't have buttons, how do you switch tabs and pages with it?

[edmuss]

I guess you might be able to bind hotas buttons to trigger the page switching programs? You would need to use an external program (like target for thrustmaster for example) to do so I think.

@actually_fredmight it be possible to have virtual buttons that can be tapped with the stylus instead of pressing physical buttons?

[Gianky]

6 minutes ago, edmuss said:

@actually_fredmight it be possible to have virtual buttons that can be tapped with the stylus instead of pressing physical buttons?

That would be the ideal solutions; I'm wondering if the producer's software already allows to do it?

[Brainfreeze]

2 hours ago, Gianky said:

Hey Brainfreeze, I'm getting a bit deeper into Open Kneeboard workings, the One doesn't have buttons, how do you switch tabs and pages with it?

To go from 1 tab to the next I have bound some key on the keyboard (under settings page of openvr).  U can bind buttons on your hotas if u prefer.  Within a tab you can navigate using the menu icon that appears top left of your kneeboard in vr.

[edmuss]

2 hours ago, Brainfreeze said:

To go from 1 tab to the next I have bound some key on the keyboard (under settings page of openvr).  U can bind buttons on your hotas if u prefer.  Within a tab you can navigate using the menu icon that appears top left of your kneeboard in vr.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that you can bind controller inputs to open kneeboard

I'm not sure if you can use combinations/modifier controls though. I use my warthog pinky paddle as a modifier for everything, being able to do so certainly wouldn't hurt!

My huion tablet has 6 physical buttons but to be honest I think I might find it easier to have the tab controls bound to the hotas or a virtual button as above.

[Gianky]

Thanks for your input guys.

I'm looking for a tablet that's small enough to be used on my tigh, just as I do with my Android tablet when I fly for real. It should be about 12 to 14 cm wide and 20 to 22 cm long. The One by Wacom seemed a good enough match, but I'm beginning to think I'd rather have physical buttons on the device.

How about Huion tablets? Do they have all the same software? The H430P it's even smaller than the measurements I gave above and have 4 buttons.

If anyone has another suggestion that matches more closely my ideal measurements, please do tell.

And, talking about software, are Wacom and Huion private data hungry? Do you have to give them a lot of personal info?

 

[edmuss]

I use a huion 640p which is overall about 250x140mm with 6 buttons, it sits nicely on my thigh and works great.

I haven't had to register or enter an email for the the huion software, no logins just install, configure and go.

[Gianky]

Thank you, edmuss, I'll think about it... 25 cm could be a bit long for my thigh, but it might just do it; in any case, better longer than wider.

[actually_fred]

On 5/8/2022 at 5:05 PM, edmuss said:

I'm not sure if you can use combinations/modifier controls though.

Combinations work, as long as all the buttons are on the same device; for cross-device modifiers, something like joystick gremin works well. I'd be open to pull requests adding support for a more complex binding system, but don't plan to work on it myself

On 5/8/2022 at 5:34 PM, Gianky said:

I'm looking for a tablet that's small enough to be used on my tigh, just as I do with my Android tablet when I fly for real. It should be about 12 to 14 cm wide and 20 to 22 cm long. The One by Wacom seemed a good enough match, but I'm beginning to think I'd rather have physical buttons on the device.

How about Huion tablets? Do they have all the same software?

My personal preference is a small Wacom Intuos - this has a ~ 12x18cm drawable area, ~ 16x20cm total area including the buttons.

I use 3M command strips to attach it to something like https://www.amazon.com/Destination-Departure-Pilot-Kneeboard-Comfortable/dp/B087JZ3WNC/ - the dedicated pen/stylus clip at the top is handy.

I also have a Huion H640p; my impression is:

• no noticeable difference in writing/drawing feel for me for this use; Actual artists may strongly disagree  
• Wacom have much better/more reliable software; for OpenKneeboard in particular, the option to set the buttons to 'application defined' is useful. This makes binding them via OpenKneeboard's input settings work, rather than having to use 'remote control' helper programs via Huion's 'launch program' option, and also avoids the Huion drivers need to keep the mouse cursor within the DCS/OpenKneeboard windows.
• the small Intuos is a better size
• the large, recessed buttons on the Intuos are much easier to find and press while you've got a VR headset on
• ... but the Huion is 'good enough', much cheaper, and has two more buttons

On 5/8/2022 at 6:55 PM, Gianky said:

better longer than wider.

Longer extends the writing area closer to your hips; you can crop the area in the driver settings, but when it's literally on my knee, I find writing near the bottom of the h640p a little uncomfortable.

Edited May 10, 2022 by actually_fred