Throttles not working in A10

[Sheepfu]

So I have encountered a new issue. My Thrustmaster Warthog throttles work in every other DCS aircraft. In the A10 and the A10 II they misbehave. If I cold and dark start, they refuse to work. If I start in flight one throttle works and the other only goes from 0% to 100%. When I try to delete the axis and remap it, DCS gets really confused. In Axis assignments, the little white line moves back and forth in the full range. If I delete the axis and try to re-assign it, DCS doesn't recognize that the throttle is moving. 

What puzzles me is if I do the same steps in the F5 or the F18, it works fine every time. What the heck is going on?

[LeCuvier]

In a cold-start mission you must first move the two throttles back over the "hump" from IDLE to OFF, then back to IDLE before they will respond to any movement.
Going from IDLE to OFF activates the switches JOY_BTN29 and JOY_BTN30 in the throttle that should be bound to "Right Engine Throttle set OFF" and "Left Engine Throttle set OFF" by default.

Re your statement " If I start in flight one throttle works and the other only goes from 0% to 100%.", I don't understand what you are talking about. Can you be more specific?

[Sheepfu]

Thanks for the reply,

My standard procedure for the A10 in cold and dark is to load with the throttles at idle. Once it’s loaded and the cockpit is clickable I pull the throttles back to the off position. I know that DCS has trouble recognizing that the throttles are below the idle stops otherwise. In this case it doesn’t matter, they aren’t moving at all regardless of the position I try to put them in.

 

As for going into a hot cockpit, the right throttle on the screen mimics the right throttle on the thrust master perfectly. The left the throttle stays at idle until the the trust master is about 33%. The the sim goes to WOT from there on. Like it is a switch instead of an axis. Like I said all other aircraft don’t have this behavior.

[Yurgon]

That sounds really odd indeed.

Can you first check that the left throttle axis is not bound to any other controller, like an Xbox controller or a rudder pedal toe brake axis or anything else?

If that doesn't solve it, I'd then try a DCS Repair (Windows Icon -> Eagle Dynamics -> Repair DCS World (or Repair DCS World OpenBeta)) with the long and slow option.

If that doesn't solve it, I'd recommend you rename Saved Games\DCS or Saved Games\DCS.openbeta to something else, only make the most necessary inputs next time you start DCS,  check and set the necessary input controls for the left and right throttles, and see if the problem persists. Afterwards, you can delete the new DCS or DCS.openbeta folder and rename your old one back.

Also take a look at the controls indicator (RCTL+Enter) while in the cockpit to see what DCS thinks your throttle position is. It might give you some ideas how to refine the search for the problem's root-cause.

8 hours ago, Sheepfu said:

So I have encountered a new issue.

I haven't been following your issues. Were any previous problems also related to inputs and input assignments? Can you link to those reports? Is there a chance your problems are connected by a common cause?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Yurgon

[Sheepfu]

Hello Yurgon,

First, my comment about a new issue was just due to the fact that in seven years, it never happened. 

With that said, I do have it working now. It was a combination of things, I don't know which one did the trick or if it was all of them. Here is what I did:

1. repair the install of DCS beta

2. Use JoyId (An old program from back in the day) to change the order of the joystick ports to match the order that DCS displayed from left to right.

3. Downloaded and used the old Thrustmaster Calibration tools. It took three times to get the settings to stick.

 

Again the weird thing was the whole time the F-18 and F-5 were fine until I used Windows calibration tool. That broke those too. That's when I did the repair install and did the items listed above.

 

[Yurgon]

Glad to hear that it's working again!

[Wolf 37]

I think I have the same issue...before updating to the new DCS 2.7 I could start an A-10 engine by advancing the throttles from Off to Idle. Now I Have to use the keyboard command, I tried to map it in the options but it says there is no HOTAS options available for this. But I know before the 2.7 update it worked just fine.

Is this the same issue? If so how is the fix? Because according to all the calibration tools, the HOTAS is working properly.

[Yurgon]

2 hours ago, Wolf 37 said:

Is this the same issue?

No, doesn't sound like it. OP said his throttles only provided 0% or 100% input with nothing in between.

2 hours ago, Wolf 37 said:

If so how is the fix?

Still working fine for me in 2.7.9 Stable (a bit behind) and 2.7.10 OpenBeta.

You didn't say which HOTAS you use. This type of over-the-hump engine start is only exposed to a few very specific HOTAS combos, if I'm not mistaken. If you've got the TM Warthog, I can pretty much guarantee it's still there. If you use another HOTAS, I'd be surprised if ED removed it, but that might be a starting point. The control is called:

• A-10C Real: Systems -> Left Engine Throttle Set OFF / Right Engine Throttle Set OFF
• A-10C II Real: Special for Joystick, Systems -> Left Engine Throttle Set OFF / Right Engine Throttle Set OFF

There are some obvious questions, though. At the start of the sim, DCS doesn't usually know which state a button is in. Quite a few players have said in the past that it used to work and then it didn't.

The most common solutions are:

• Enable "Synchronize Cockpit Controls with HOTAS Controls at Mission Start" and see if that solves the problem:
  
• Disable "Synchronize Cockpit Controls with HOTAS Controls at Mission Start" and see if that solves the problem (no kidding; some said the problem went away once this was disabled)
• After hopping into the cockpit, move the throttles from OFF to IDLE and back to OFF (in fact if they're in IDLE at mission start, it's enough to move them to OFF once).

Does any of that solve the problem for you?

[Wolf 37]

I think I have the same issue...before updating to the new DCS 2.7 I could start an A-10 engine by advancing the throttles from Off to Idle. Now I Have to use the keyboard command, I tried to map it in the options but it says there is no HOTAS options available for this. But I know before the 2.7 update it worked just fine.

Is this the same issue? If so how is the fix? Because according to all the calibration tools, the HOTAS is working properly.

[Yurgon]

1 hour ago, Wolf 37 said:

I think I have the same issue [...]

Did you just post the exact same question as before?

Your searchterm in the controller assignments should NOT be "engine start".

It should be (as already mentioned above):

• A-10C Real: Systems -> Left Engine Throttle Set OFF / Right Engine Throttle Set OFF
• A-10C II Real: Special for Joystick, Systems -> Left Engine Throttle Set OFF / Right Engine Throttle Set OFF

Could you try looking for that please?

Also, what HOTAS do you have?

Does enabling and/or disabling "Synchronize Cockpit Controls with HOTAS Controls at Mission Start" solve your problem?

[Wolf 37]

Ok, that just made me look stupid. That is not at all what I replied and I do not know why it just added the same message I originally posted.

 

My HOTAS is the Warthog, as you can see from the picture, thats the only thing that did post correctly, there are no commands possibly for the HOTAS throttle any longer for the engine start up. I tried what you suggested, it did not work for what I'm trying to accomplish. 

 

I am not stupid, I know what this setup used to do before I updated to the 2.7 whatever, I did not have to use the keyboard to start the engines in the A10C, whether it be real or whatever, I advance the throttle from the off position to idle and the engine started. Now it does not PERIOD

Why engine off? That is not my problem, my problem is engine start.

[Yurgon]

1 hour ago, Wolf 37 said:

Why engine off? That is not my problem, my problem is engine start.

That's what the keybind is called. If it's not mapped to your HOTAS, you can't start the engines with it.

There's really no use searching for a keybind under a wrong name.

Can you check whether a keybind by said name exists in your installation, and if the OFF positions of your throttles are properly bound to it?

At this stage, I'm thinking a slow and full DCS repair, followed by renaming your Saved Games\DCS or Saved Games\DCS.OpenBeta and starting with a clean and fresh installation might also be worth a try. If it doesn't work, you can always rename your old Saved Games\DCS (or DCS.OpenBeta) back and get all your settings back.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Yurgon
Typo

[jaylw314]

You want to bind these under "Systems":

IIRC, there used to be a "Engine Throttle (Left/Right) IDLE" which they removed a few updates ago.  I think they were trying to make all the modules a little more consistent, and replaced it with a different command that does the same thing.

Confusingly, they left the "(Left/Right) Engine Throttle Set OFF" in the "Special for Joystick" category, which does the exact same thing as "Engine Stop (Left/Right)", but there's no corresponding "Engine Throttle Set IDLE" anymore).

This happened a few months ago, so if you haven't updated it in a while you may have missed it, and your controls are probably bound incorrectly now.  Fix it.

[LeCuvier]

@jaylw314 Let's not confuse the facts!
What @Yurgonstated is correct since @Wolf 37 uses a TM WH Throttle. The correct commands are "Left Engine Throttle Set OFF" and "Right Engine Throttle Set OFF". The names are a bit misleading I agree but these are the right commands, and by default these are bound to JOY_BTN30 and JOYBTN29 respectively.
These physical switches in the throttle lever are ON in the "throttle OFF" position. And when you move the lever to IDLE then the physical switch goes OFF. This transition from physical switch ON to OFF is what triggers the transition from Throttle OFF to IDLE. It's reverse logic and it has always been that way.

 

[Yurgon]

3 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Confusingly, they left the "(Left/Right) Engine Throttle Set OFF" in the "Special for Joystick" category, which does the exact same thing as "Engine Stop (Left/Right)", but there's no corresponding "Engine Throttle Set IDLE" anymore).

I haven't mapped these functions on my Warthog in ages. If anything changed, it did not require user input.

Also, "Engine Stop" is just that, it stops the engine and nothing else, just like "Engine Start", well, starts it but does nothing else.

Since I haven't ever mapped the function myself that we are really talking about here (DCS comes with a default binding for the TM Warthog Throttle) I couldn't say whether it was renamed, but I'm certain it did not require any remapping.

In either case, Wolf 37 should check and double check the key bindings and make sure that all is set like it should.

[jaylw314]

13 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

@jaylw314 Let's not confuse the facts!
What @Yurgonstated is correct since @Wolf 37 uses a TM WH Throttle. The correct commands are "Left Engine Throttle Set OFF" and "Right Engine Throttle Set OFF". The names are a bit misleading I agree but these are the right commands, and by default these are bound to JOY_BTN30 and JOYBTN29 respectively.
These physical switches in the throttle lever are ON in the "throttle OFF" position. And when you move the lever to IDLE then the physical switch goes OFF. This transition from physical switch ON to OFF is what triggers the transition from Throttle OFF to IDLE. It's reverse logic and it has always been that way.

 

Ah, I see, my bad on the WH throttle.

I do, however, recall seeing a "Engine Throttle IDLE" keybind in the past that confused me, that is no longer there, but then that sounds not to be the problem

[LeCuvier]

7 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Ah, I see, my bad on the WH throttle.

I do, however, recall seeing a "Engine Throttle IDLE" keybind in the past that confused me, that is no longer there, but then that sounds not to be the problem

I don't recall the earlier naming of these commands but they were always there for people who don't have the TM WH throttle. I'll try to put things i context.
The file "Throttle - HOTAS Warthog.lua" defines these two commands for the TM WH throttle: 

{combos = {{key = 'JOY_BTN30'}}	,down = iCommandLeftEngineStop , up = iCommandLeftEngineStart,  name = _('Left Engine Throttle Set OFF') , category = {_("Special For Joystick"), _('Systems')}},
{combos = {{key = 'JOY_BTN29'}}	,down = iCommandRightEngineStop, up = iCommandRightEngineStart, name = _('Right Engine Throttle Set OFF'), category = {_("Special For Joystick"), _('Systems')}},

  and this part of the first line defines default bindings for the left throttle lever: "combos = {{key = 'JOY_BTN30'}".

The file "default.lua" defines these 4 commands for use with 2 pairs of pushbuttons on any other type of game controller:

{down = iCommandLeftEngineStart, name = _('Engine Start Left'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = iCommandRightEngineStart, name = _('Engine Start Right'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = iCommandLeftEngineStop, name = _('Engine Stop Left'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = iCommandRightEngineStop, name = _('Engine Stop Right'), category = _('Systems')},

A look at the detail shows that these 4 commands are made up of the same internal commands (e.g. iCommandLeftEngineStart) as the 2 commands for the TM WH throttle.
Unforunately, ED does not use consistent naming so these commands have names like "Engine Start Left".

PS: If you wanted to use a pair of maintained ON/OFF switches (instead of 4 pushbuttons) on a button box for this function, you could actually copy the two lines from "Throttle - HOTAS Warthog.lua" and paste them into "default.lua".

[Wolf 37]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:55 AM, Yurgon said:

I haven't mapped these functions on my Warthog in ages. If anything changed, it did not require user input.

Also, "Engine Stop" is just that, it stops the engine and nothing else, just like "Engine Start", well, starts it but does nothing else.

Since I haven't ever mapped the function myself that we are really talking about here (DCS comes with a default binding for the TM Warthog Throttle) I couldn't say whether it was renamed, but I'm certain it did not require any remapping.

In either case, Wolf 37 should check and double check the key bindings and make sure that all is set like it should.

Left & Right Engine Throttle Set Off are set to buttons 29 & 30. The other item you mentioned about having "Synchronize cockpit controls..." I tried that both ways and it had no effect. 

When I'm in the sim and go to start the engines I can move my throttle levers back and forth and nothing happens, but all other controls that are powered to that point will work. As soon as I use the keyboard commands to start the right or left engines the throttles on screen will pop to life, even if they are still in OFF position, they will show in the IDLE position in the sim, and I can immediately use that throttle.

I will try to repair the file.

[Yurgon]

1 hour ago, Wolf 37 said:

I will try to repair the file.

Let us know if that helps!

1 hour ago, Wolf 37 said:

As soon as I use the keyboard commands to start the right or left engines the throttles on screen will pop to life

Okay, just to triple-check: When you start the sim in the cold cockpit, and you move your real throttles to IDLE, then back to OFF, and then to IDLE again, the throttles in DCS remain in the OFF position, is that correct?