Number of FLARES wrong!

[GumidekCZ]

Simple mathematics:

Edited February 15, 2022 by GumidekCZ

[AeriaGloria]

11 hours ago, GumidekCZ said:

Simple mathematics:

 

How do you know which one if for flares or chaff only? They should be interchangeable, only the total number would be changed right? 

[GumidekCZ]

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

How do you know which one if for flares or chaff only? They should be interchangeable, only the total number would be changed right? 

The FLARE seem to be same size as MJU-7 1x2 inch - max total number is 28, no more.

Chaff is different size, seems like 1x1,5 inch (according to texture pixel measurement) - max total number is 36, which is correct in DCS editor.

Due to different size of countermeasure and very different dispencer, it highly unlikely to have Chaffs and Flares interchangeable.
If you find and post here detailed pictures of real JF-17 with its dispencers, you will see tham Im correct.

[AnarchyZG]

A textbook definition of "rivet counting"...

[J20Stronk]

I could be wrong, but the 2 circular slots also hold cartridges? At least, when you use the PAF Black Spiders livery, they have the same color as the other cartridges.

[Torbernite]

I see photo proof for the modeling, both in Paris, Dubai, Zhuhai and Islamabad.

JF-17 Thunder - Pakistan - Air Force | Aviation Photo #4601845 | Airliners.net

JF-17 Thunder - Pakistan - Air Force | Aviation Photo #4724009 | Airliners.net

But also photos with the lower dispenser opening covered by a white plate (Dubai 2011\2013 and Zhuhai 2010, JF-17 Thunder - Pakistan - Air Force | Aviation Photo #2016657 | Airliners.net) and photos with upper dispenser no opening (JF-17 Thunder - Pakistan - Air Force | Aviation Photo #6714413 | Airliners.net , there are actual version with no opening but an unbroken skin there, but this one with smoke trace around it, suggesting former launching of chaff/flares). So I think the different dispensers could be installed/uninstalled so maybe even exchanged integrally, and there may be more complex corresponding types of chaff and flare cartridges which might be interchanged. Even F-14 use two different types of chaff in internal and rack dispensers. 

If not, you can't explain this unless you judge it as faked:

Technically, Pakistan CMF-1/2 (MJU-7 scale) flare cartridge could be launched from ALE-47 and Chinese GT-1. And Pakistan Mohafiz dispenser launches different flare and chaff cartridges in similar magazines. The flare cartridge is 1*2 inch and chaff 1*1, so chaff magazine set a separating wall in one hole and load two chaff in it. This is just an example as the one on JF is definitely not this type of scene, but it shows a possibility to load different scale cartridges in a given dispenser magazine.

Finally, I remembered last time I saw you counting pixels for fault was in the RCS supposition. I have to say, set your opinion aside and I admire your patience.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Torbernite

[Foogle]

36 minutes ago, J20Stronk said:

I could be wrong, but the 2 circular slots also hold cartridges? At least, when you use the PAF Black Spiders livery, they have the same color as the other cartridges.

I think the 2 circles are for the bolts holding the chaff/flare bucket in place. 

[GumidekCZ]

I also think, that the two small round things are just crews to hold the bucket there - can also be seen on chaff bucket.

This one sgingle picture is very very questionable and its origin also. We even dont know, if the flares come from that plane. Most questionable is, why there is no flare light effect on vertical stabilizer what so ever. This really could be fake.

I found more photos of exact dispencer layout as can be seen in DCS JF-17 (1"x2" flares at the bottom and chaffs at upper side of tail fuselage).

There is non of photos or public videos (at least what i have found) that show different layout from that in DCS.

The chaff decoys are not size of 1"x1". The shape is more rectangular. Like I estimated before: 1"x1.5"

Edited February 16, 2022 by GumidekCZ

[AeriaGloria]

I have seen a lot of fake pictures but not sure that is fake. The buckets are bolted in with identical bolts, what’s to stop changing them?

If Deka checks this and says it’s correct or deems any changes necessary I will believe them. 

[Torbernite]

So I said it's an example to show cartridges don't have to be the same scale to be loaded in same magazine, and nothing more.

However, we truly need more reply from deka about what they do to research their aircraft, what details they know about it and what they (and we) can't get. Basic features like this are not clear for us,  for example the forever unknown real position of the Rctrl+O manual lasing switch.

 

 

One step more, the changelog hasn't been updated for months, the post "Deka we haven't heard from you much" is posted half a year ago, but nothing changed.

A QA might be needed now. We know nothing about what feature they have access to and could be made, what bugs they know need to be fixed, what they are actually working on, and many other questions.

Maybe one year ago JF was more completed even than hornet and viper. But now, although there were truly some important improvement with JF, with those two more and more completed, we have been used to the fact that JF has to fight with the reciprocating bugs to keep itself working instead of advancing, which may be not Deka's fault. But aren't we expecting less and less, even the manual…

I believe in Deka's capability and enthusiasm and I'm willing to just wait for them to get the job done. But now I don't know what to do. Maybe they are indeed busy with their job in reality. But could we know more about Deka's work on this aircraft and what to expect in near future? The forum is deadly silent with sounds about future from team comparing with some others. Role of Uboats is becoming more and more like a after-sale customer service staff facing us with problem in the module, instead of a member of developing team.

[GumidekCZ]

5 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I have seen a lot of fake pictures but not sure that is fake. The buckets are bolted in with identical bolts, what’s to stop changing them?

If Deka checks this and says it’s correct or deems any changes necessary I will believe them. 

I don't know what your personal attitude is towards Deka or JF-17, or if you are a "biased" nationality, but you have to learn to find or check the truth, not believe everything you are told.

You can't ask me your question, but Deka company or real JF producer.

So far, I do not see a single piece of evidence that would allow countermeasure buckets to be interchangeable, and I wonder if anyone will present such evidence here.

[Mike_Romeo]

Maybe someone can find a higher resolution of this picture. It would tell us how many it actually has.

Maybe Deka can check it quick since they have access to a real JF-17 simulator https://www.facebook.com/dekaironworksims/posts/pfbid0iUFUXiPmyFYkGywvDMjEFZuq7ADUJQdxVXDdKCTnZTgQkwUAuEwvxMwn7BQkkVc7l?__cft__[0]=AZWLeH3BKr7uTaaSk0KUeWMvZb_wIBPLO-V0EyFie8IHzx5Kz4_OxYhNNQumWqDKeD-7RgEncRFFzjVrjn4QfDiFhJqIVbm87Buej7NS7SMPTkKnF6sGONcF2O5_rCBewoH_IN5Xqu6wwoTn2U7B1-kETATG1Kw3C8AwHu3yzElSsg&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

[uboats]

here's countermeasure dispenser used by jf-17 we use as ref

16x2 and 18x2

[AeriaGloria]

8 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

Maybe someone can find a higher resolution of this picture. It would tell us how many it actually has.

Maybe Deka can check it quick since they have access to a real JF-17 simulator https://www.facebook.com/dekaironworksims/posts/pfbid0iUFUXiPmyFYkGywvDMjEFZuq7ADUJQdxVXDdKCTnZTgQkwUAuEwvxMwn7BQkkVc7l?__cft__[0]=AZWLeH3BKr7uTaaSk0KUeWMvZb_wIBPLO-V0EyFie8IHzx5Kz4_OxYhNNQumWqDKeD-7RgEncRFFzjVrjn4QfDiFhJqIVbm87Buej7NS7SMPTkKnF6sGONcF2O5_rCBewoH_IN5Xqu6wwoTn2U7B1-kETATG1Kw3C8AwHu3yzElSsg&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Did reverse image search multiple places, original is 570 x 380 and not clear

 

11 minutes ago, uboats said:

here's countermeasure dispenser used by jf-17 we use as ref

16x2 and 18x2

I forgot about those pictures of the avionics being displayed, cool to see them up close and separated!!!

However the graphic model seems to be slightly different for one side in game, which probably led to this thread 

It doesn’t matter much to me as long the amount is correct though 

Edited February 18, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Torbernite]

5小时前，uboats说：

here's countermeasure dispenser used by jf-17 we use as ref

16x2 and 18x2

That's what I realized later. JF should be able to use various customized version of equipment as a export product. So the flare dispensers are quite different from those on the in-game model based on real aircrafts in PAF?

Do you regard it as an uncomfortable problem, or an insignificant issue as we can set our desired amount of flare?

And could you explain those version differences more clearly in the future, and give us a clear definition of our JF, like what features from what ref sources if necessary?

Edited February 18, 2022 by Torbernite

[GumidekCZ]

All pictures of JF-17 Block 2 what I have ever seen shows poorely with low resolution that Dekas texture is correct.
Picture of dispencer posted here proves nothing as it is not mounted in Block 2 version plane at the year Dekas JF-17 is simulating. Somebody would have to do good job in Photoshop   This pcture of two different dispencers only show us the size shape of countermeasures and its buckets, which are clearly NOT interchangeable.

You cannot ignore simple math, FLARE maximum number is wrong and needs to fixed.

Edited February 18, 2022 by GumidekCZ

[uboats]

It’s not wrong, but just different dispenser at different stage/blks

Our manual also says 36/32.

[Mike_Romeo]

48 minutes ago, uboats said:

Our manual also says 36/32.

Please GIB JF-17 manual or at least a status update about the manual and the JF-17 module. We have waited for a long time for a manual and official skin template.

[uboats]

28 minutes ago, Mike_Romeo said:

Please GIB JF-17 manual or at least a status update about the manual and the JF-17 module. We have waited for a long time for a manual and official skin template.

Will try to push ceo harder for manual

Edited February 18, 2022 by uboats

[Mike_Romeo]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:08 AM, GumidekCZ said:

So far, I do not see a single piece of evidence that would allow countermeasure buckets to be interchangeable, and I wonder if anyone will present such evidence here.

Look what I found ! A Jeff with both kind of flare dispensers.




Source: https://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/1277

Can we close this topic now ?

Edited February 18, 2022 by Mike_Romeo

[Mike_Romeo]

Here you can see more clear that the "black" dispensers with two perfect lines are different than the "red" ones



Source: https://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/2435, https://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/2035

More detailed JF-17 photos here: https://falcons.pk/Photos/Search?name=JF-17

Have a nice day guys !

Edited February 18, 2022 by Mike_Romeo

[Torbernite]

So now the problem is whether it's necessary to change the texture to match the 36/32 or to change the number to match the texture or neither of them?

[GumidekCZ]

OMG, really? The BLACK means, that the flare is not there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Open Your Eyes!

All pictures post by both of you AGAIN just confirms, Dekas correct texture!

Thanks you guys for not high detailed pictures with only poor resolution, but it is still enough to support my Bug Report and Yes, close this toppic as "Reported".

Edited February 19, 2022 by GumidekCZ

[Torbernite]

Your expression and mood are so complacent and unpleasant.

I remembered Deka set it as a blk1 with some updated blk2 features, it's a hybrid version and not that strange to set with number different from pak version. The problem now is the ref for the system is provided by AVIC but not the one used on Pak version, which is the ref for the texture, causing difference between system and appearance. Their ref is also real configuration so I won't regard it as an inaccuracy.

@uboatsWhat Deka needs to do now is to clarify every feature as "possibly provided by AVIC" or "exact version from Pak", and keep it in correspondence between texture and system to stop others from find your fault on pixel level. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Torbernite

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, GumidekCZ said:

OMG, really? The BLACK means, that the flare is not there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Open Your Eyes!

All pictures post by both of you AGAIN just confirms, Dekas correct texture!

Thanks you guys for not high detailed pictures with only poor resolution, but it is still enough to support my Bug Report and Yes, close this toppic as "Reported".

 

As Tobernite said, it is suppossed to be block 1. It has only one block 2 feature. And that is the aerial refueling probe and associated switches/light.

I think you would get alot betters responses without the all caps and exclamation marks. If you have the evidence I’m sure Deka will take a look at it, but the demeanor doesn’t help that 

Also high definition close ups of flare dispensers is a hard picture to find, maybe you would like to provide some of these “higher resolution” photos you speak of to help your case