UH-60L Black Hawk Mod ("Official" Thread)

[H60MTI]

CMWS has been around for a long time. I remember walking into my hanger back in Jan 2005 and had birds getting the A-kits installed for CMWS before my sister battalion deployed to Afghanistan. We also had CMWS installed on our aircraft when I deployed for the first time in 2007. I put some photos up also...The 2 pictures; one with ESSS installed and the one with the cockpit doors open are from 2006/2007 time frame. You can see the CMWS EOMS housing on the nose. The one of my taking a preflight fuel sample is in Iraq between Sep-Nov 2007, no combat patch yet. You can see the flare bucket right behind my shoulder. The last pic I took of our chalk 2 while flying in Iraq. You can see all the CMWS stuff on it back in OIF 07-09.

Edited yesterday at 01:32 AM by H60MTI

[Kev2go]

7 hours ago, H60MTI said:

CMWS has been awhile for a long time. I remember walking into my hanger back in Jan 2005 and had birds getting the A-kits installed for CMWS before my sister battalion deployed to Afghanistan. We also had CMWS installed on our aircraft when I deployed for the first time in 2007. I put some photos up also...The 2 pictures; one with ESSS installed and the one with the cockpit doors open are from 2006/2007 time frame. You can see the CMWS EOMS housing on the nose. The one of my taking a preflight fuel sample is in Iraq between Sep-Nov 2007, no combat patch yet. You can see the flare bucket right behind my shoulder. The last pic I took of our chalk 2 while flying in Iraq. You can see all the CMWS stuff on it back in OIF 07-09.

If it was available as early as 2005 then why isnt CMWS referenced within the published manuals for Uh60A/L? The Only changes i noticed when comparing  the sept 25th 2009 UH60A/L publication compared to the earlier 1996 ( revised 2002) publication  are replacement of AN/ASN128B with AN/ASN128D and additional performance charts for then new GE 701D engines for UH60A+ and UH60L.  Cmws on the other hand referenced and described in the Uh60M operators manual. I would of expected the same with the Uh60A/L.

 

So if there is no documentation available on how CMWS is integrated in a circa 2005-2009 UH60L how you could expect it to be modelled even if mod  team had access to a SDK like 3rd parties do?

Edited Saturday at 06:22 PM by Kev2go

[NeedzWD40]

2 hours ago, Kev2go said:

If it was available as early as 2005 then why isnt CMWS referenced within the published manuals for Uh60A/L?

Same reason why ASPI isn't documented in the "published" manuals for the AH-64. Nor why the AH-64A manuals available don't document TXARNG's CMWS installation. Or why the AH-1F manual documents AVR-2s when you can't find any official US Army aircraft equipped with it. Things vary from unit, to deployment, to timeframe; equipment is pulled from post-deployment birds to go onto deploying aircraft for availability, quantity, or any variety of reasons. Try as they might, there's not a monolithic block of standards that every aircraft must always be in, properly documented and up-to-date. Thus, you'll see mishmashes of UH-60As with uprated engines, CMWS, and sugar scoops along side a UH-60M with the latest fixings.

How you implement such a system? Easy; you don't need to know exactly how the wires are routed and the frequency range of the sensors. You make an abstraction over the available information and get something that works similar enough in the game. You're not going to get a 1:1 representation and that's pointless for this anyways, but you can get something that gets close enough. For something like CMWS, there's enough info out there to make a pretty reasonable guess, particularly so for DCS since we already have multiple modules with it anyways.

[Kev2go]

4 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Same reason why ASPI isn't documented in the "published" manuals for the AH-64. Nor why the AH-64A manuals available don't document TXARNG's CMWS installation. Or why the AH-1F manual documents AVR-2s when you can't find any official US Army aircraft equipped with it.

 

Exactly manuals normally account for stuff that aren't  one off field mods. 

Ie a single uh1h  aviation company carried a ircm on 1 deploymeny to el  slavador but never again. Or how a small number of oh58d in operation prime chance were  field testing a wip weapons system but the oh58d 1988 manual doesn't include kiowa warrior armed upgrades because it wasn't officially adopted and standardized  until post cold war hence you need to look at later 1990s manuals to see weapons systems operation.

 

So unless cmws was similar field mod/ early combat evaluation  status on uh60a/L until 2009 i dont see why manual wouldnt account for it.

 

4 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

 

Things vary from unit, to deployment, to timeframe; equipment is pulled from post-deployment birds to go onto deploying aircraft for availability, quantity, or any variety of reasons. Try as they might, there's not a monolithic block of standards that every aircraft must always be in, properly documented and up-to-date. Thus, you'll see mishmashes of UH-60As with uprated engines, CMWS, and sugar scoops along side a UH-60M with the latest fixings.

 

Yes and these varying mix of features are normally documented. Ie the 2009 manual accounts for uh60a and L with different engine options including additional charts for 701D engines which debuted with UH60M

4 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

How you implement such a system?

Or maybe the developers simply made the choice to model a non cmws uh60L? Not having cmws isn't innacurate since not all birds had it even in the context of a 2005-2009 timeframe vs more recent period. The countermeasures panel you see on center panel within the UH60L community mod dates back to at least the 1980s. You can look at the 1988 manual and see how that panel is configured in a cold war era UH60A

 

4 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

 

Easy; you don't need to know exactly how the wires are routed and the frequency range of the sensors. You make an abstraction over the available information and get something that works similar enough in the game. You're not going to get a 1:1 representation and that's pointless for this anyways, but you can get something that gets close enough. For something like CMWS, there's enough info out there to make a pretty reasonable guess, particularly so for DCS since we already have multiple modules with it anyways.

No but it's implentation is always going to be different since the other birds that have cmws are digital anyways and not analog like uh60L . Cmws implementation is not identical between aircraft that have them better to just have documentation of it rather then play guesswork and have some frankenstein interpertation So this means a later then 2009 iteration of the uh60a/L manual(s) needs to be found. Or some other supplemental documentation.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:11 AM by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

3 hours ago, Kev2go said:

So this means a later then 2009 iteration of the uh60a/L manual(s) needs to be found. Or some other supplemental documentation.

 

 

CMWS would definitely be documented in a later then 2009 operators manual. Although i failed to find a newer iteration of the operators manual , I did come across an UH60A/L  intermediate aviation maintenance manual dated may 2014. CMWS configuration is listed and has a associated diagram where the new panels should be located in the cockpit.  Cyclic grip is modified to include a  manual flare dispense button.

 

So yeah if a post 2009 maintenance manual covers cmws config I would imagine same would be for a more recent publication of uh60a/L operators manual if I was able to find it.

Edited yesterday at 01:08 AM by Kev2go

[trev5150]

13 hours ago, H60MTI said:

CMWS has been awhile for a long time.

Uh wut

[H60MTI]

Because CMWS is/was a mod. The -10 is the standard equipment operators manual. Aircraft, A's and L's, got sent off for the CMWS mod. The M model was the first Blackhawk to come off the line with CMWS. That's why it's not referenced in the -10 until the UH-60M. 

 

I definitely meant around for a long time...

[trev5150]

1 hour ago, H60MTI said:

I definitely meant around for a long time...

Ah ok because in S Central PA people, especially waitstaff, will throw "awhile" in sentences where a full "while you're waiting" would naturally go. It very odd to the uninitiated. 

[H60MTI]

That's different...So instead of; While you're waiting, I'll go get your drinks...They'll shorten that to; awhile, I'll go get your drinks...I don't like that. No sir, I don't like that at all. I'm glad here in NC they don't do that...

[trev5150]

23 hours ago, H60MTI said:

That's different...So instead of; While you're waiting, I'll go get your drinks...They'll shorten that to; awhile, I'll go get your drinks...I don't like that. No sir, I don't like that at all. I'm glad here in NC they don't do that...

LOL yeah I lived in York, PA when I worked for Textron Systems. Got my Bio degree from Penn State York.

Still not as bad a yinz. 

Edited 7 hours ago by trev5150

[dcval]

Just tried it the last version:

1. FM: so much better than the previous version, the AFCS is stunning (because I did the "Bell412 for Fligthgear" some years ago, I know how difficult it is to dev.)

2. Design: wow, beautiful, perhaps too much reflection on the front windshield, the map doesnt seem to match the cockpit, but its ok.

3. Sound: gorgeous. But the narrative are not audible.

The pilot characters seem to be too small (with the same IPD as for the UH1). Perhaps an option to disable the pilot body ?

Thank you so much for all this huge work, this mod is amazing, 5*.

EDIT: just tried the weaponry: insane ! Lot of fun. 

Edited 4 minutes ago by dcval