Fratricide option hard coded

[DTS_Maton]

Would it be possible to add this as an easy option for map makers/servers to turn on!?

i spend a lot of time on multiplayer servers where members of your own team either kill other team mates or own team units 

this has gotten to the point where it is becoming useless to build SA sites or have any meaning troop creation/movement because somebody decides to use your painfully time consuming created unit for target practice!!!!!

an easy selfdestruct option that a builder could turn on so that the responsible party auto destructs the moment he hits a team member/units would be very usefull

this way the player does not have to be removed from the server but knows he will have to start again

[cfrag]

Countering griefers with your own effort as mission designers seems to be a futile effort. There simply are too many people around who exult in childish behavior. Ignore them, ban them, forget them, whatever. They are unfortunately a fact of public server life. 

That being said, it's not that difficult to detect fraticide per script, and automatically kick & ban a player after a number of friendly kills. A mission-bound (i.e. not server) drop-in script that "merely" kills a player after each friendly kill past the first (which we assume to be accidental) is also not that difficult. If I have the time over the week-end I'll see if and what I can come up with.   

 

[Beirut]

3 minutes ago, cfrag said:

There simply are too many people around who exult in childish behavior.

 

 

I thought DCS flyers were older folks in general and less prone to that kind of thing?

[cfrag]

2 minutes ago, Beirut said:

I thought DCS flyers were older folks in general and less prone to that kind of thing

Well, it's my unfortunate experience that age is not a criterium that prevents childish behavior. But even if older people aren't prone to acting like that - it's a big community, and statistics work against you...

Also - since DCS itself is free, if your mission supports the (free) Su-25T or (low cost) FC3 planes, you are practically begging for asocial elements (of all age groups) to log in to your server and vandalize your game. That's how they get off.     

[draconus]

2 hours ago, DTS_Maton said:

an easy selfdestruct option that a builder could turn on so that the responsible party auto destructs the moment he hits a team member/units would be very usefull

Unrealistic. When detected the friendly group should contact the offender and decide if it was accident or a hostile action - then send intercept group.

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

Well, it's my unfortunate experience that age is not a criterium that prevents childish behavior. But even if older people aren't prone to acting like that - it's a big community, and statistics work against you...

Also - since DCS itself is free, if your mission supports the (free) Su-25T or (low cost) FC3 planes, you are practically begging for asocial elements (of all age groups) to log in to your server and vandalize your game. That's how they get off.     

 

I really am surprised. I thought given the price point of DCS - your rig + HOTAS + modules - and the learning curve, "the children" would be weeded out. 

[cfrag]

19 minutes ago, Beirut said:

I thought given the price point of DCS - your rig + HOTAS + modules

Well, if you want to fly good, yes. If all you want is grief others, an xbox controller and a $5 FC module will do the trick

21 minutes ago, Beirut said:

and the learning curve, "the children" would be weeded out

What learning curve? Have you ever witnessed the astonishing abilities children possess to learn stuff? It took my godson (age 12) some 5 minutes to pick up flying a real plane (I took him on a flight in a Cherokee and handed him the controls). He learned to fly *and*land* the Eagle in DCS (with my controllers and rig) in under 30 minutes. How long do you think it took him to learn how to point and shoot missiles? Kids can learn to control an FC plane in DCS in one hour flat - enough plane control anyway to take it on a server and cause grief to those who fly for realism, not to "blow stuff up". No, flying a plane in DCS requires no significant learning curve at all. Flying it *good* - now that's a different matter entirely, something that's usually not in scope of griefers; their goal is to annoy, not impress.

Then again, maybe I'm just a cranky old guy who things that children have bad manners, and contempt for authority; that they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. And yeah, I'm quoting Socrates here, so nothing new under the sun for at least 2400 years  

 

[Callsign112]

Well he did include FC3 planes, and wasn't it @Tippis that pointed out some had their computers donated?

[Beirut]

23 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Well, if you want to fly good, yes. If all you want is grief others, an xbox controller and a $5 FC module will do the trick

What learning curve? Have you ever witnessed the astonishing abilities children possess to learn stuff? It took my godson (age 12) some 5 minutes to pick up flying a real plane (I took him on a flight in a Cherokee and handed him the controls). He learned to fly *and*land* the Eagle in DCS (with my controllers and rig) in under 30 minutes. How long do you think it took him to learn how to point and shoot missiles? Kids can learn to control an FC plane in DCS in one hour flat - enough plane control anyway to take it on a server and cause grief to those who fly for realism, not to "blow stuff up". No, flying a plane in DCS requires no significant learning curve at all. Flying it *good* - now that's a different matter entirely, something that's usually not in scope of griefers; their goal is to annoy, not impress.

Then again, maybe I'm just a cranky old guy who things that children have bad manners, and contempt for authority; that they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. And yeah, I'm quoting Socrates here, so nothing new under the sun for at least 2400 years  

 

 

Yeah, I guess you're right. And quoting Socrates gets you off the hook for anything else. 

[Tippis]

4 hours ago, Callsign112 said:

Well he did include FC3 planes, and wasn't it @Tippis that pointed out some had their computers donated?

Depends on how diligently the office IT people have locked your laptop down, doesn't it?

[Callsign112]

It might, but if the computer was donated I'm assuming its no longer at the office. Unless of course they donated the office as well.

[cfrag]

9 hours ago, DTS_Maton said:

an easy selfdestruct option that a builder could turn on so that the responsible party auto destructs the moment he hits a team member/units would be very usefull

Turns out, this was easier than I thought. It's not extensively tested, and bare-bones (more a proof of concept, really - I'll add it to my lib later). Anyway, here's a script and demo mission showing that it works. Change the amount of grace kills to give your people more strikes, or set it to zero to be intolerant of any mistakes. 

The script remembers the players names (during mission only), so even if they change planes will they be recognized later. 

unGrief = {}
unGrief.version = "1.0.0"
unGrief.graceKills = 1 -- how many kills before repercussions
unGrief.griefers = {} -- offenders are stored here 

-- event proccer 
function unGrief:onEvent(theEvent)
	if not theEvent then return end
	if theEvent.id ~= 28 then return end -- only S_EVENT_KILL events allowed
	if not theEvent.initiator then return end -- no initiator, no interest 
	if not theEvent.target then return end -- wtf happened here? begone!
	local killer = theEvent.initiator 
	if not killer:isExist() then return end -- may have exited already 
	local stiff = theEvent.target 
	if not killer.getPlayerName then return end -- wierd stuff happening here 
	local playerName = killer:getPlayerName()
	if not playerName then return end -- AI kill, not interesting 
	
	local killSide = killer:getCoalition()
	local stiffSide = stiff:getCoalition()
	
	if killSide ~= stiffSide then return end -- fair & square
	
	-- if we get here, we have a problem.
	local previousKills = unGrief.griefers[playerName]
	if not previousKills then previousKills = 0 end 
	
	previousKills = previousKills + 1
	unGrief.griefers[playerName] = previousKills
	
	if previousKills <= unGrief.graceKills then 
		-- ok, let them off with a warning 
		trigger.action.outText(playerName .. " has killed one of their own. YOU ARE ON NOTICE!", 30)
		return 
	end
	
	-- ok, time to get serious 
	trigger.action.outText(playerName .. " is killing their own. ".. previousKills .. " kills recorded so far. We disaprove", 30)

	-- lets set them up the bomb	
	local p = killer:getPoint()
	-- aaand all your base are belong to us!
	trigger.action.explosion(p, 100)
	trigger.action.outText("Have a nice day, " .. playerName, 30)
	-- (or kick via SSB or do some other stuff. be creative to boot this idiot)
end

-- connect
world.addEventHandler(unGrief)
trigger.action.outText("unGrief v" .. unGrief.version .. " loaded.", 30)

Here's a demo mission to try. Killing blue will have consequences, red's ok.

Hope this helps,

-ch

good grief.miz

[Callsign112]

Good stuff! I think the OP should really appreciate this.

[DTS_Maton]

OHHHH yes we need this yesterday 

now if only the multiplayer servers will embrace this especially the 4YA servers

Edited February 26, 2022 by DTS_Maton

[Mars Exulte]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:19 AM, Beirut said:

 

I really am surprised. I thought given the price point of DCS - your rig + HOTAS + modules - and the learning curve, "the children" would be weeded out. 

  Oh, you sweet summer child...

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

  Oh, you sweet summer child...

 

Innocent am I. 

[Tippis]

Your best option for a more general solution is, as is almost always the case once you get into more advanced MP, to use SLmod, in the particular case the AutoAdmin system. It can be tweaked pretty extensively to give different penalties at different degrees of harshness depending on who kills what, and also track behaviour over time and across some of the standard punishment-avoidance techniques. In a bit of an ironic twist, though, it doesn't quite allow for the leniency you're suggesting (unless further modded).

You'll also end up wanting it for all the other functionality it offers, so it's a good thing to have regardless.