Is there Rudder trim on the real Apache?

[Hiob]

11 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

 but DCS is a just  game and should be viewed as a PC game.

psst...you crazy? Such is seen as blasphemy around here....  (You're right though.)

[dburne]

Whilst yes it is certainly a PC-Game there is an argument to be made at the same time that it truly is a fully fledged simulator of the real thing. We have access from the cockpit of everything that is available in the real thing that it is simulating, that is not classified or not available to the developers for whatever reason.

However reset trim should be an option for those that would like to have it even if it is not available in the real thing. Some compromises need to be made to accommodate the hardware the PC-Gamer uses. Those that do not believe a reset trim option should be available because the real thing does not have simply can choose not to enable that option.

Edited March 24, 2022 by dburne

[Hiob]

To answer the original question: Yes.

Quote: "A force trim system is incorporated in the longitudinal, lateral and directional control axes. The force trim system is designed to keep the controls in the position that the pilot or CPG selects."

Edited March 24, 2022 by Hiob

[Hiob]

9 hours ago, Grennymaster said:

Helos in generell dont have a trim on the Rudder as far as i know. the whole system is hydraulik so the pedals stay whre you left them. same ist with the Cyclic but this is with an magnetic break.

It's not about staying put, but about the force gradient that is applied, when moving away from the trimmed position.

Basically, when you press and hold the trim button, all forces are relieved and you can move cyclic and pedals free from forces to any position. When you release the trim button, that position is the new center position, from which you get a recentering force gradient.

[Grennymaster]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

It's not about staying put, but about the force gradient that is applied, when moving away from the trimmed position.

Basically, when you press and hold the trim button, all forces are relieved and you can move cyclic and pedals free from forces to any position. When you release the trim button, that position is the new center position, from which you get a recentering force gradient.

Ahhh ok now i got it thx. i really didnt know that it also effecs the Pedals on so many Helos  

Always nice to learn such things

 

[Hiob]

4 minutes ago, Grennymaster said:

Ahhh ok now i got it thx. i really didnt know that it also effecs the Pedals on so many Helos  

Always nice to learn such things

 

To be clear, I only have sources for the Apache. I assume that is pretty much how it works on (almost) all helicopters, but I don't know for sure.

btw. this is achieved by magnetic brakes that lock to a spring assembly. (Think, this is working the same in the Huey....)

Edited March 24, 2022 by Hiob

[Grennymaster]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

To be clear, I only have sources for the Apache. I assume that is pretty much how it works on (almost) all helicopters, but I don't know for sure.

btw. this is achieved by magnetic brakes that lock to a spring assembly. (Think, this is working the same in the Huey....)

 

you explained it al last and did not just try to blame other so im thankfull for that.

 

[kgillers3]

 

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

To be clear, I only have sources for the Apache. I assume that is pretty much how it works on (almost) all helicopters, but I don't know for sure.

btw. this is achieved by magnetic brakes that lock to a spring assembly. (Think, this is working the same in the Huey....)

 

so if a helicopter has rotor trim is model and features specific. Even force trim on the cyclic. For example when I learned in a “version” of the bell 206. One model had no force trim on any of the controls, just friction. Another model that was IFR certified had force trim on the cyclic. I could be wrong but the early Huey that’s modeled doesn’t have force trim on the pedals, just friction. As far as cyclic I think you’re right but I could be wrong, but like my example of the jet ranger, there’s probably an example where it doesn’t have any force trim but that’s also a ill informed guess. Then modern Huey’s I would guess have options for full setups.  If the huey has it as an option in game now that the Apache has forced me to learn force trim in game for rotor I might go back and select it.  
 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by kgillers3

[Grennymaster]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb kgillers3:

 

so if a helicopter has rotor trim is model and features specific. Even force trim on the cyclic. For example when I learned in a “version” of the bell 206. One model had no force trim on any of the controls, just friction. Another model that was IFR certified had force trim on the cyclic. I could be wrong but the early Huey that’s modeled doesn’t have force trim on the pedals, just friction. As far as cyclic I think you’re right but I could be wrong, but like my example of the jet ranger, there’s probably an example where it doesn’t have any force trim but that’s also a ill informed guess. Then modern Huey’s I would guess have options for full setups.  If the huey has it as an option in game now that the Apache has forced me to learn force trim in game for rotor I might go back and select it.  
 

 

 

 

got you, think it really is a matter of the model itself. I just never had the oppurtunity to get into one with a trimmer on the pedals man i wish i could finish my linzens so much more to know and learn

[kgillers3]

14 minutes ago, Grennymaster said:

got you, think it really is a matter of the model itself. I just never had the oppurtunity to get into one with a trimmer on the pedals man i wish i could finish my linzens so much more to know and learn

I’d say more designer and model, for example skikorsky seems to favor the pedal trimmer switches. Also has to deal with what that helicopter is designed to do, and what ratings the manufacturer is going for. Pricing and design concerns. More features means more weight so older small light helicopter it’s probably less common, modern more advanced as technology has improved, and most larger helicopters, not all, it becomes more common.  
 

 

When you go to pick up your car do you want awd vs rwd vs fwd. what’s the pro, con, price. What is it designed for. I think is more along the terms.  That’s largely my opinion and I could easily be far off the mark. 

[River]

20 hours ago, dburne said:

Yeah I have the damper mod on my Crosswind Pedals and use the lighter spring.

I probably should detach the spring and give it a try with the Apache. With the lighter spring I may not need to completely detach it just loosed it up some. I am lazy though and when I go back to some Hornet flying or WWII flying I will need to reinstall the spring. Certainly may give it a try with the Apache here soon to see how I like it.

 

Unhooking the spring on the MFG pedals takes one second and is faster than turning down the spring tension. And you got your desired spring tension when you hook it back in for fixed wings. 

Just unhook it and use no spring trim option for the pedals. A dampner and no spring would be perfect. 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, River said:

Unhooking the spring on the MFG pedals takes one second and is faster than turning down the spring tension. And you got your desired spring tension when you hook it back in for fixed wings. 

Just unhook it and use no spring trim option for the pedals. A dampner and no spring would be perfect. 

Yep made the change yesterday afternoon, love it! The damper mod I got from MFG for the pedals is quite nice without spring.

Edited March 25, 2022 by dburne