Bug or correct? Rockets fire twice when pulling the trigger slowly to the second detent

[Wychmaster]

I am using a Thrustmaster Warthog stick that has a 2 stage trigger. So I bound the first and second detent to it. When I pull the trigger to the second detent, I noticed that sometimes twice as many rockets are fired as selected on the weapons page. After some testing I figured out, that a salvo is fired when I use the first detent. If I advance to the second detent, another salvo is fired if the first salvo is already out of the launchers. In case the launchers are still  firing, no additional salvo is triggered.

So depending on how quick you advance to the second detent, you fire either one or two salvos. Track is attached. What you see is the following: I fired multiple salvos with the quantity set to 4. First I pulled the trigger really slow to the second detent, then a bit faster and finally quick enough that just one salvo was fired. I repeated it multiple times.

So my question is: Is this the correct behaviour or a bug? I mean it could certainly be useful to have some kind of mechanism to double the volume of rockets you want to fire without messing with the MFDs, but I am not sure here.

Rockets - trigger detent test.trk

[Raptor9]

3 minutes ago, Wychmaster said:

So my question is: Is this the correct behaviour or a bug?

It's not accurate behavior to real life, no. To fire another salvo, you would need to release the trigger fully and then pull again. I'm not a coder, so I don't know if it is even possible to delineate between two separate detents on 3rd party hardware or not within DCS when they are treated as separate button pushes.

As a possible solution, you could simply map one of the detents, but it depends on how much the behavior bothers the individual player.

[Frederf]

What does the first stage trigger do in reality? I'm also trying to figure out how not to actuate the first stage LRFD trigger when releasing the second stage.

[pii]

6 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

I'm not a coder, so I don't know if it is even possible to delineate between two separate detents on 3rd party hardware

The second detent is just another button.

[Raptor9]

25 minutes ago, pii said:

The second detent is just another button.

Yep, I said as much in my post.

38 minutes ago, Frederf said:

What does the first stage trigger do in reality? I'm also trying to figure out how not to actuate the first stage LRFD trigger when releasing the second stage.

The first stage and second stage both fire the actioned weapon. The difference with the 2nd detent is it allows certain weapon inhibits to be overridden and still fire. An example would be PYLON LIMIT. If this message is present you will need to pull the trigger to the second detent to fire the weapon.

[Baldrick33]

The two stages are simply two buttons, so you are mapping two different buttons to fire, so it is the same as pressing fire twice. The detents allow you to say laser a target and then fire the weapon if that functionality exists.

[Frederf]

The issue is if I have 'A' and 'B' to first and second detent then when I advance the trigger to 'B' then release back to 'A' I get a distinct first detent action.

[pii]

1 minute ago, Frederf said:

The issue is if I have 'A' and 'B' to first and second detent then when I advance the trigger to 'B' then release back to 'A' I get a distinct first detent action.

Do you have them correctly mapped? There is a option for first detent and 2nd detent. Did you map those?

[Frederf]

Yes but when I move my controller through its range it pushes the first detent on half action, second detent on full action, and first detent when releasing.

[Raptor9]

@Frederf, to tackle several problems at once, I mapped my first trigger detent to open the trigger guard (just OPEN, not OPEN/CLOSE), and the second detent trigger to the in-game second detent. It removes the requirement to separately map the silly trigger guard command , and it bypasses the first trigger detent altogether to remove the double fire command.

Just my personal solution to set it up.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Raptor9

[Frederf]

I'm talking about the TEDAC left trigger. It's an Xbox controller mapped with the LT axis broken into zones I, II, III.  Zone I is blank, zone II is keyboard something, zone III is keyboard something-else.

So the zone III to zone II transition is being seen as releasing second detent and pressing first detent. When I bind it up to Warthog trigger 1 and trigger 2 (buttons 1, 1+6 respectively) everything works fine. I tried to set zone I as 'A' and zone II as 'A+B' to keep that same scheme. But it looks like there is a gap between the zones so the 'A' is being interrupted and reapplied.

[Baldrick33]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

I'm talking about the TEDAC left trigger. It's an Xbox controller mapped with the LT axis broken into zones I, II, III.  Zone I is blank, zone II is keyboard something, zone III is keyboard something-else.

So the zone III to zone II transition is being seen as releasing second detent and pressing first detent. When I bind it up to Warthog trigger 1 and trigger 2 (buttons 1, 1+6 respectively) everything works fine. I tried to set zone I as 'A' and zone II as 'A+B' to keep that same scheme. But it looks like there is a gap between the zones so the 'A' is being interrupted and reapplied.

I take it that is an analog axis being mapped to buttons (in zones)?

I recall Joystick Gremlin could add a direction the range was being entered from (above or below) so it can only be applied in one direction. That would prevent it being reapplied on the way back in this case.

[Wychmaster]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Raptor9:

It's not accurate behavior to real life, no. To fire another salvo, you would need to release the trigger fully and then pull again. I'm not a coder, so I don't know if it is even possible to delineate between two separate detents on 3rd party hardware or not within DCS when they are treated as separate button pushes.

As a possible solution, you could simply map one of the detents, but it depends on how much the behavior bothers the individual player.

Thanks for your response. Since it is not accurate, we can consider this to be a bug and maybe a mod can move it to the bug section. 

It doesn't really bother me, since the way to the second detent is rather long. I was too lazy to look into the manual and thought I can figure out myself if the set number refers to single rockets or pairs. Then I was wondering why I sometimes fired the set amount of rockets and sometimes twice as much. Now I know where I need to pay attention to. But since it is not the correct behaviour, it should be fixed. Knowing a bit about coding, correcting this shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Sarge55]

I set 2nd detent action to first trigger which IIRC Wags suggested in one of his videos. 
Still, should be fixed instead of various workarounds. 

[Frederf]

I'm remaking the reWASD profile in Joystick Gremlin/vJoy (and alternate windows controller so LT and RT are on separate axes) which should make it possible to bind button presses similar to how the Warthog trigger works.

A major benefit is that I'll be able to use 64 DX buttons output so I won't be doing keystroke emulation at all. The downside is I won't have rumble support and haven't even begun to figure out double taps (although long presses seem to be well within vJoy's capability).

[Baldrick33]

4 hours ago, Frederf said:

I'm remaking the reWASD profile in Joystick Gremlin/vJoy (and alternate windows controller so LT and RT are on separate axes) which should make it possible to bind button presses similar to how the Warthog trigger works.

A major benefit is that I'll be able to use 64 DX buttons output so I won't be doing keystroke emulation at all. The downside is I won't have rumble support and haven't even begun to figure out double taps (although long presses seem to be well within vJoy's capability).

Sounds like a good plan. Joystick Gremlin can handle double taps as well as long/short presses.

[kirrasdad]

On 4/2/2022 at 12:48 PM, Frederf said:

What does the first stage trigger do in reality? I'm also trying to figure out how not to actuate the first stage LRFD trigger when releasing the second stage.

I believe in CPG/TEDAC LHG first detent will fire if within constraints, second detent will force override and fire even if not within constraints. RHG first detent is a one second laser range finder, and second detent is laser on as long as trigger is held in