reported PNVS Stuttering

[TZeer]

Issue still persists after patch.

Did a quick test tonight with a night mission. Changing between PNVS and TADS as source for my IHADSS nightvision. TADS has a much better smoothnes to it. PNVS has horrible stutter. Makes it impossible to use as it is now. 

This is in VR. 

[nachomaga]

Agree, issue persist (and again, yes, TADS is smoother). It’s a pity, because I avoid night missions because of that, and there is a lot of good night missions.

Edited May 23, 2022 by nachomaga
Typo

[Muzka]

I really hope this gets looked into. The stutter on PNVS vs TADS is very noticeable and makes night piloting an uncomfortable experience.

Like others in this topic, my game runs at a silky 60fps in 2D and it is just the pnvs that has this issue.

[nachomaga]

Yea, I hope too.

With last updates, the symbology gets a lot better and less stuttery, specially the diamond, seems that now is really locked in the center. Very good job for developers! TADS seems now bit smoother too.

But PNVS still has stutters

Anyway, if the devs fix the symbology problem, I hope they will fix the PNVS soon, so I can fly night missions in this amazing module.

Edited July 29, 2022 by nachomaga

[dedlike.]

i think the best way to describe it is that the pnvs runs at 30 fps while the game ( in my case ) around 130-140fps , so the difference is huge, if you play on a 60hz montor you are probly less likely to feel the difference....

[Scaley]

2 hours ago, dedlike. said:

i think the best way to describe it is that the pnvs runs at 30 fps while the game ( in my case ) around 130-140fps , so the difference is huge, if you play on a 60hz montor you are probly less likely to feel the difference....

Not sure that actually works - my DCS is locked at 40FPS using Nvidia control panel, and my monitor is running at 60Hz. I still get stutters in PNVS.

[nachomaga]

19 hours ago, dedlike. said:

i think the best way to describe it is that the pnvs runs at 30 fps while the game ( in my case ) around 130-140fps , so the difference is huge, if you play on a 60hz montor you are probly less likely to feel the difference....

As stated before, is not the fps in the PNVS where the problem is, is the tracking, in my opinion.

You can test that doing a turn without moving your head or looking to one side and, again, with the head still. Everything runs smoothly. I can't see a way to see the fps only in the PNVS screen, but I feel in my system that it runs the same as the peripheral.

Is only when you move your head when jittering appears.

Edited July 30, 2022 by nachomaga

[dedlike.]

hmm, then a better way to describe it would be, that the pnvs only adjusts to your head 30 times per sec,  making it feel like 30 ish fps ( or less ) while moving your head around

i tend to not use it much unless i absolutly have to since the lag makes it just realy uncomfortable to use, wich is sad since i think its a great adition to the heli

[Scaley]

Just to add some more data for the devs:

In multiple tests I can reliably fix the stuttering by switching the PNVS off for a period of time (sometimes 10 seconds off is enough, sometimes it needs 60secods or more). Any means of not having the PNVS on screen works, including external views, ALT-TAB out of DCS, alternate night vision device (NVG and TADS both work). After doing something not using the PNVS for 60+ seconds, go back and it is smooth again. 

Also noted - time from mission start to first stutter appears to shorten the more you adjust the FLIR controls.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Scaley

[nachomaga]

9 hours ago, Scaley said:

Just to add some more data for the devs:

In multiple test I can reliably fix the stuttering by switching the PNVS off for a period of time (sometimes 10 seconds off is enough, sometimes it needs 60secods or more). Any means of not having the PNVS on screen works, including external views, ALT-TAB out of DCS, alternate night vision device (NVG and TRADS both work). After doing something not using the PNVS for 60+ seconds, go back and it is smooth again. 

Also noted - time from mission start to first stutter appears to shorten the more you adjust the FLIR controls.

I will check later, thanks for your findings

[nachomaga]

Any news on this issue? I can fly night missions changing to TADS (goes smoother than PNVS even slew speed is slower), but leave George almost blind, lol.

Edited September 28, 2022 by nachomaga

[Swift.]

30 minutes ago, nachomaga said:

Any news on this issue? I can fly night missions changing to TADS (goes smoother than PNVS even slew speed is slower), but leave George almost blind, lol.

 

It seems a lot better to me than it used to be. I'll have to retest I think.

[BIGNEWY]

26 minutes ago, Swift. said:

It seems a lot better to me than it used to be. I'll have to retest I think.

let me know, personally I am not seeing a problem now. 

[TZeer]

Had a test on 2.7 today and the stutter is very visible when on the PNVS. When using the TADS it's smooth, but moves a little slower, as normal.

I will check on 2.8 after I have updated, but will wait until the performance issue is sorted regarding VR.

I'll see if I can find some way of capturing the issue with a video.

[TZeer]

Here is a quick video of me changing between the PNVS and TADS.

Pay close attention to the straigth lines in the pavement infront of the Apache. I'm starting out with PNVS activated, before changing to TADS.
One can clearly see the difference in how smooth the picture is when using the TADS. But to be honest, the video does not do it justice. It's much more
noticable when you have the picture right on to your face in VR.

 

[nachomaga]

On 10/31/2022 at 6:14 PM, TZeer said:

Had a test on 2.7 today and the stutter is very visible when on the PNVS. When using the TADS it's smooth, but moves a little slower, as normal.

I will check on 2.8 after I have updated, but will wait until the performance issue is sorted regarding VR.

I'll see if I can find some way of capturing the issue with a video.

Nice this thread is alive again. As you said, the problem is more noticeable in VR. What headset do you use? G2 here.

By the way, just rolled back to 2.7, but in 2.8, PNVS stuttering was the same for me (first time I do when a new update is released is to check this issue in the Apache).

Oh, Pimax 8K is on the way, I will post here if the issue persists.

[TZeer]

I have a G2 running on an AMD 6900XT.

I'm also running my G2 on 60Hz right now. Yes it has a very distinct "flicker" on bright scenes. But currently flying right around when it gets dark or during night.
But it's also so so smooth now. No need for MR and I have enough overhead to consistently run 60 FPS.

As long as one is looking straight aheaad, it's hard to notice. But start looking around and off to the sides it gets quite horrible, really quick.

 

[dedlike.]

hope this gets gets some atention again, looking around with the PNVS just feels wrong with the extra "lag"  hope some day the pnvs will be as smooth as the tads

[Thunderchief2000]

I have been flying the Apache at night a lot lately and the stuttering with the PNVS is still there.

just to reiterate what others have stated in this thread.

It is not FPS related, if you do not move your head and instead turn the helicopter, there are no stutters.

It is only when turning my head do I see the stuttering, and it is just like the tracking is jumping to position. The video from the PNVS still seems smooth although it is hard to tell and the rest of the simulation is at full speed. (45 fps in my case, HTC Vive Pro)

The effect does not seem to change, it is the same from the start of the mission to the end. turning the PNVS on and off make no difference for me.

Changing the displays setting to "every frame" made no difference for me.

 

 

[nachomaga]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:47 AM, Thunderchief2000 said:

I have been flying the Apache at night a lot lately and the stuttering with the PNVS is still there.

just to reiterate what others have stated in this thread.

It is not FPS related, if you do not move your head and instead turn the helicopter, there are no stutters.

It is only when turning my head do I see the stuttering, and it is just like the tracking is jumping to position. The video from the PNVS still seems smooth although it is hard to tell and the rest of the simulation is at full speed. (45 fps in my case, HTC Vive Pro)

The effect does not seem to change, it is the same from the start of the mission to the end. turning the PNVS on and off make no difference for me.

Changing the displays setting to "every frame" made no difference for me.

 

 

Well explained, let see if we have some attentions from the devs   Again, TADS is smooth, don’t know why...

By the way, I’m trying my new Pimax 8KX this days, but unfortunately, PNVS stuttering is still there.

Edited November 10, 2022 by nachomaga

[Floyd1212]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:46 AM, BIGNEWY said:

let me know, personally I am not seeing a problem now. 

Is there a way for someone at ED, or anyone really, to post a video of it working without the stutter?  There are several videos in this thread demonstrating the problem, but I don't think we have seen a video of anyone demonstrating the PNVS working as smoothly as TADS.

Also, can you ask the Dev team at what frequency the PNVS is getting updates of the current head position of the pilot?  Does the PNVS track the head position 10,000 times per second, or once every 10 seconds?  We know it isn't either of those ridiculous extremes, and it is somewhere in between, but where?

I tried recording a video of the stutter I am seeing in game when playing at 3440x1440 at 60fps, but my video recording came out scaled down to 1080p at 15 fps and does not capture the issue.  I need to find a better video capture solution...

[Floyd1212]

I tried some different screen capture software, but it didn't seem to really capture the issue quite like how I experience it in person, so I went old-school and used my phone to record the monitor.  This is pretty accurate with what I'm seeing in game.

 

[Scaley]

20 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

I tried some different screen capture software, but it didn't seem to really capture the issue quite like how I experience it in person, so I went old-school and used my phone to record the monitor.  This is pretty accurate with what I'm seeing in game.

 

Good plan! That replicates exactly what I'm seeing and also was struggling to capture using OBS.

[Thunderchief2000]

22 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

I tried some different screen capture software, but it didn't seem to really capture the issue quite like how I experience it in person, so I went old-school and used my phone to record the monitor.  This is pretty accurate with what I'm seeing in game.

 

Yes this is pretty much what I get as well, great vid.

[TZeer]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:29 PM, Floyd1212 said:

I tried some different screen capture software, but it didn't seem to really capture the issue quite like how I experience it in person, so I went old-school and used my phone to record the monitor.  This is pretty accurate with what I'm seeing in game.

 

YES!!
 

Finally! That is how it is when using the PNVS! To bad you didn't include the TADS, as it's smooth as silk compared to the crappy feeling we have with the PNVS.

Anyway, I noticed that the video I posted earlier, the easiest way of looking at the difference in that video between PNVS and TADS, was trying to focus on the buildings/hangars in the distance. With the PNVS it impossible to focus on them, as they "blur" out. But when I changed to the TADS, you can keep focus on the buildings while I pan my view.